Over 92 million Americans out of work force

[Steve]

Call Obama care what you like and bleat about the costs but you cant knock the bloke for trying to make healthcare available for all. You can bet that once this is in place properly there wont be a newly elected government brave enough to dismantle the system , they may trim up the costs which can only be a good thing but healthcare for the masses is a must have PERIOD.

Bob

Medicare, when created in 1965, was projected to be about an $8-10 billion program by 1990 (they do 25 year projections). When 1990 rolled around it was a $112-115 billion program. Obamacare is projected to cost $1.4 trillion over the next 9 years. Anyone want to take a bet that it will stay on budget?

No one would argue healthcare access to everyone is good for society. Bankrupting the country in the process results in a colossal failure of not only the healthcare delivery system but the financial stability of the whole country. None of the centralized healthcare systems in Europe have been a raging success. All have struggled to contain costs and none have stayed "on budget". As a result, they've all been modified quite a bit. Obamacare has none of the cost controls of the European systems. Bottom line, we can't afford it. Medicare came in about 1000% overbudget after 25 years. If Obamacare comes in 100% overbudget what happens to our debt.

It doesn't matter how much you want something or how right or righteous the plan is, you have to live within your means and Obamacare is not within our means.

 

[Jim Craik]

Oh, I thought Jim said "being correct is very important to me". After spending an entire post bashing you for being a selfish greedy doctor(QUOTE) Posted by Steve

Steve,

Is what you just said true?

Steve, did I say anything about anyone here being a Doctor?

Now Doug mentioned that Larry was a Doctor but........

(1) I had never heard that

(2) I said nothing about him being a "geedy doctor" in fact I said nothing about him being a doctor at all.

Steve, these are your words, you expect an appology when you think I'm wrong. Lets see if you can live up to your words?

" I'm sure you can expect an apology forthright."

 

[Steve]

My bad, it was Doug not you. Sorry, one progressive looks like the rest. Guess that makes me racist.

 

[Jim Craik]

Steve you insisted on an "apology" for something I did not do.

a·pol·o·gy
əˈpäləjē/
noun




noun: apology; plural noun: apologies

1. 1.
   a regretful acknowledgment of an offense or failure
   
   
   
   

But you only said this.....

My bad, it was Doug not you. Sorry, one progressive looks like the rest. Guess that makes me racist.

Posted by Steve

I'm not sure that comes close to the definition, care to try again?

 

[Steve]

Lighten up Francis (one of my favorite Stripes quotes). My response was partly in jest. I did forget the :thumbsup:.

So what kind of progressive would you classify yourself Jim?

 

[Larry L.]

Call Obama care what you like and bleat about the costs but you cant knock the bloke for trying to make healthcare available for all.

One can "knock the bloke". Why? Because of the incompetent, 'we-don't-care-WHAT-the-majority-of-the-American-people-want', one-sided way he went about it and the pathetically sub-par, staggeringly complicated and mind-numbingly expensive result that came out of it.

You can bet that once this is in place properly there wont be a newly elected government brave enough to dismantle the system...

We'll be better able to make that judgment when 'the masses' watch their employer-based healthcare plans go down the john after the 2016 elections (there's a reason Obama saw to that time frame) and they finally see what Obamacare is actually going to cost them...not just 'the other guy' (AKA 'the rich').

That said, like you, I have Z-E-R-O confidence that our reps will do what needs to be done; IOW scrap the whole mess and start with a clean sheet of paper.

...but healthcare for the masses is a must have PERIOD.

"PERIOD"?

Seriously???

"PERIOD"?

Even if providing coverage for the masses severely limits everybody's access to doctors, hospitals, and to the treatments available to this or that individual - and it completely bankrupts the country/economy in the process?

Really?

 

[Jim Craik]

Steve,

Last month in a similar thread, I got it wrong about the "supermajority" need to pass the ACA. Pat pointed this out and I apologized. You insisted on an apology and implied that I would not give one.... This is what an apology looks like.

"Pat,

You are absolutly correct, I got that wrong on several levels. I forgot that it was Arlen Spector, switching from Republican to Democrat, mid term that did give them the "supermajority" for a few months. Sorry about getting that wrong."

 

[Robert May Eng.]

Medicare, when created in 1965, was projected to be about an $8-10 billion program by 1990 (they do 25 year projections). When 1990 rolled around it was a $112-115 billion program. Obamacare is projected to cost $1.4 trillion over the next 9 years. Anyone want to take a bet that it will stay on budget?

No one would argue healthcare access to everyone is good for society. Bankrupting the country in the process results in a colossal failure of not only the healthcare delivery system but the financial stability of the whole country. None of the centralized healthcare systems in Europe have been a raging success. All have struggled to contain costs and none have stayed "on budget". As a result, they've all been modified quite a bit. Obamacare has none of the cost controls of the European systems. Bottom line, we can't afford it. Medicare came in about 1000% overbudget after 25 years. If Obamacare comes in 100% overbudget what happens to our debt.

It doesn't matter how much you want something or how right or righteous the plan is, you have to live within your means and Obamacare is not within our means.

I am glad we all agree healthcare for the the US is important . Whilst I can understand everyones concerns about the cost I fail to see how it can drive the country into bankruptcy. Its all relativley new and is probably going to need a few years of fine tuning coupled to financial restraints but is that not true of any new venture? Healthcare across Europe does in the main run over budget but it has not brought us to our knees , in some ways it is a victim of its own success in that it has us all living a lot longer which has brought about plans to raise the age of retirement .

State pension age to be raised to 70 for today's young workers | UK news | The Guardian

As it was prior to Obamacare those that were not part of the system just freeloaded on the hospitals which in turn dumped on those that payed so whats worse?

Bob

 

[Larry L.]

Whilst I can understand everyones concerns about the cost I fail to see how it can drive the country into bankruptcy.

Those who created and passed Obamacare evidently "failed to see it" as well.

(Unless, of course, Obamacare was purposely designed to fail clearing the way for a single payer system - which has been the libs' real goal all along.)

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Those who created and passed Obamacare evidently "failed to see it" as well.

(Unless, of course, Obamacare was purposely designed to fail clearing the way for a single payer system - which has been the libs' real goal all along.)

The debt is $17.5 trillion and climbing, up from $10.6 trillion 1/1/2009. We could go in the shitter without Obama care. U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

 

[Larry L.]

Yep, 'exactly right. And now with the trillions Obamacare is going to cost thrown in on toppa all that...............................................?

 

[Jim Craik]

: Obamacare Will Cost Less Than Projected, Cover 12 Million Uninsured People This Year

Posted: 04/14/2014 12:53 pm
Share6996


WASHINGTON -- The Congressional Budget Office has released updated estimates on the Affordable Care Act's impact on both the budget and the health insurance industry. The findings show that the president's signature health care law is actually growing cheaper to implement, costing the government $5 billion less in 2014 than was previously projected. The law also is projected to cover more individuals than previously believed, owing, in part, to some broader workforce trends.

Below are some additional highlights from the CBO report:
Twelve million more non-elderly people will have health insurance in 2014 than if Obamacare had not become law. CBO's projections on this crucial measure of the law's success are higher than recent surveys from the Rand Corp., which estimated a 9.3 million reduction, and from Gallup, which shows a 3.5 million decline.

For all of 2014, the CBO expects 6 million people to be covered by private health insurance policies purchased through the exchanges, fewer than the 7.5 million enrollment figure touted by the White House.

That's mainly because the CBO expects people to cycle in and out of different types of coverage over the year -- perhaps by taking a new job and the health benefits that come with it -- and because some enrollees won't pay their first month's premium or will let their policies lapse during the year.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Jim, correct me if I'm wrong, but if people were uninsured I would think it was because they couldn't afford insurance or have medical conditions that would cost them too much for insurance. Now that they have inexpensive or cost free Obamacare, how many healthy people will have to enroll to cover the 12,000 uninsured that you spoke of. I would think that would be 2 or 3 times the 12,000. With only 9,000 signed up. I think we have a problem, and that problem will lead to a taxpayer bailout of the insurance carrier.

 

[Nick]

Okay if I have got my maths right.

Cost of UK NHS £105.254bn pounds in 2012/13. Planned expenditure for 2013/14 is £109.956bn pounds. = $185,372,005,308 times 9 years (with no increment for increased expenditure or inflation i.e., an under estimation) = $1853720053080 or 1.8 trillion dollars.

UK population 65 million US population 318 million so why is it that a small Island such as ours can pay more for its healthcare per head than the US even with our socialist governments without going bankrupt.

Maybe the right don’t actually have faith in the American capitalist dream after all

It is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver.
Mahatma Gandhi

 

[Jim Craik]

Nick,

Unfortunatly for many on the right, their faith in America was long ago supplanted by their total faith in Fox Entertainment.

I mean, would a group called "Fox and Friends" mislead me?

When Fox tells them President Obams was born in Kenya...it must be true!
When they told them he was a Muslum...it must be true!
When they told them Obama was goint to take their guns...it must be true!
When they told them the ACA would never pass...
When they told them it was "Unconstitutional"...
When they told them no one would sign up...
When they told them 89% of doctors would quit..
When they told them Romney would win in a landslide...

​

It's apparant that regardless of how many times they are mislead, their "faith" in the "FALSE PROPHET" is stronger than ever...


Meanwhile the ACA is moving along nicely, with more signed up at less cost that projected!

They had made "killing" it their number one priority......

We can't have "poor people" with access to health care that will "destroy" America"......


But in the end, the thing that they fear more than anything is the success of the ACA.

It appears that their worst nightmare is comming true!

 

[Doug S.]

Unfortunatly for many on the right, their faith in America was long ago supplanted by their total faith in Fox Entertainment.

I mean, would a group called "Fox and Friends" mislead me?

When Fox tells them President Obams was born in Kenya...it must be true!
When they told them he was a Muslum...it must be true!
When they told them Obama was goint to take their guns...it must be true!
When they told them the ACA would never pass...
When they told them it was "Unconstitutional"...
When they told them no one would sign up...
When they told them 89% of doctors would quit..
When they told them Romney would win in a landslide...

It's apparant that regardless of how many times they are mislead, their "faith" in the "FALSE PROPHET" is stronger than ever...

It's called "Drinking the Kool-Aid", Jim. It's a common behavior observed in those whose hatred overshadows their powers of cynicism and they believe everything they hear from a favored source because it is what they do desperately want to be true.

Everyone's entitled to redemption, though...perhaps the radical right will prevail and Boehner and his co-conspirators will have to cow-tow to them more than they already have to....Uggghhhh!

They had made "killing" it their number one priority......

We can't have "poor people" with access to health care that will "destroy" America"......

But in the end, the thing that they fear more than anything is the success of the ACA.

It appears that their worst nightmare is coming true!

They bought into the hatred of the TEA Party, Jim....if things turn out as I suspect they will, the TEA Party contingent will have gotten their well-deserved spanking (or, as Gee-Dub called it, "...a thumpin'!") and perhaps we can then get some cooperation from Boehner and his co-conspirators.

Extremism is still not powerful enough to take over the country...yet. But think about what we did to our kids, Jim....we made the strong, the bad-boys their heros. WWF and all that sorta stuff. We did ourselves no favors, believe me...there will always be a place for those radical "strong", even if they are a small minority...they may get out their vote and give the left that "thumpin'."

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Bob Fechter]

Since the lefties want to deflect from the original subject of this thread, I'll join in with Politico, no less;

"Nearly half a billion dollars in federal money has been spent developing four state Obamacare exchanges that are now in shambles — and the final price tag for salvaging them may go sharply higher."

Read more: $474M for 4 failed Obamacare exchanges - Jennifer Haberkorn and Kyle Cheney - POLITICO.com

 

[Bob Fechter]

And for our British Comrades;


Dr Helen Stokes-Lampard, of the Royal College of GPs, said: “My biggest fear is that those who are most vulnerable and least assertive are getting overlooked. The patients who shout the loudest will get the urgent appointments, but many others are left waiting for far too long.”

Millions wait a week to see GP - Telegraph

 

[Bob Fechter]

craik, now you get an idea of how it must feel like for B.O. to have Slow Joe Biden as your V.P.!

It's called "Drinking the Kool-Aid", Jim. It's a common behavior observed in those whose hatred overshadows their powers of cynicism and they believe everything they hear from a favored source because it is what they do desperately want to be true.

Everyone's entitled to redemption, though...perhaps the radical right will prevail and Boehner and his co-conspirators will have to cow-tow to them more than they already have to....Uggghhhh!



They bought into the hatred of the TEA Party, Jim....if things turn out as I suspect they will, the TEA Party contingent will have gotten their well-deserved spanking (or, as Gee-Dub called it, "...a thumpin'!") and perhaps we can then get some cooperation from Boehner and his co-conspirators.

Extremism is still not powerful enough to take over the country...yet. But think about what we did to our kids, Jim....we made the strong, the bad-boys their heros. WWF and all that sorta stuff. We did ourselves no favors, believe me...there will always be a place for those radical "strong", even if they are a small minority...they may get out their vote and give the left that "thumpin'."

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Larry L.]

Nick,

Unfortunatly for many on the right, their faith in America was long ago supplanted by their total faith in Fox Entertainment.

I mean, would a group called "Fox and Friends" mislead me?

When Fox tells them President Obams was born in Kenya...it must be true!
When they told them he was a Muslum...it must be true!
When they told them Obama was goint to take their guns...it must be true!
When they told them the ACA would never pass...
When they told them it was "Unconstitutional"...
When they told them no one would sign up...
When they told them 89% of doctors would quit..
When they told them Romney would win in a landslide...

Please provide a LINK to any FOX news broadcast wherein any FOX News R-E-P-O-R-T-E-R 'reported' any of those things as facts as a part of his/her N-E-W-S piece.

It appears you're listing comments made by guests on editorial/opinion/commentary shows - not by any FOX r-e-p-o-r-t-e-r on any of FOX's "hard news" programs. 'B-i-gggggggggg difference, innit.


Wanna talk "mislead"?

Health care negotiations will be broadcast on C-span.
'You wanna keep your doctor, you can KEEP your doctor - period.
'Wanna keep your plan you can KEEP your plan - period.
No one can take them from you - period.
The average family will SAVE $2,500 a year on their health ins premiums.
You'll receive BETTER coverage for less cost.
EVERYBODY will be covered.
Obamacare is NOT a tax.
Obamacare will NOT ADD ONE DIME to the debt/deficit.

My administration will be the most transparent admin in history.
I don’t take a dime of their [lobbyists’] money, and when I am president, they won’t find a job in my White House
Benghazi was a spontaneous demonstration caused by an anti-Muslim video.
..all these PHONY scandals.
There isn't even a smidgeon of corruption in the IRS.
GITMO will be closed within one year.
Couples earning less that $250K will not see their taxes go up one dime.
We'll create five million new jobs in the clean-energy sector in the next 10 years.
We will create or save 5 million new jobs within my 1st term (revised from we'll CREATE 'em - period).
I'll cut the deficit in half by the end of my 1st term.
The only involvement I had with Acorn was doing some stuff with the justice department.
The public will have 5 days to look at every bill that lands on my desk before I sign it.
I never heard Rev. Wright say any of those things.
I didn't raise taxes once. (Before you deny that, Jim, Obamacare alone IS a tax...)
We’ve got shovel-ready projects all across the country.
If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.
The sequester is not something that I’ve proposed.
I didn’t set a red line [in Syria].
I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits — either now or in the future.


Do I really need to go on here? You know I could. I could go on listing falsehoods from people like Prince Harry 'Romney didn't pay his income taxes for 10 years' Reid, and all the rest of Obama's minions too.


(Edit: BTW, regarding the '89% of doctors will quit' comment...almost 1/2 of the heart specialists formerly at the heart clinic wifey goes to already have. 'Retired early. 'Refused to put up with the b.s. That is real world reality to this point in an actual medical office...not a theoretical one.)