Police/public relationship in the U.S.

[Keith]

How could the officer know he was unarmed? He had just committed a robbery.
Officers are trained to shoot at the body mass, the shots to the arm were probably misses.
There is a massive difference between shooting at a target on the range and facing a charging guy intent on doing you harm. Shooting to wound aiming at the legs etc, is O.K. For Hollywood but will get you dead in real life.
The officer would continue to fire until the guy dropped. The fact that he did not empty his clip shows restraint.

It might be valid if the alleged perp had a weapon showing do you not think?

Seriously, so all you have to do is lurch towards a LEO in the US with arms outstretched and empty and get shot down at a distance with 6 rounds most of them missing the "centre mass?" I'm not buying it.

At best he (the cop) was incompetent, at worst, well, the jury will probably be out for ever on this one.

 

[Doug S.]

Shooting to wound aiming at the legs etc, is O.K. For Hollywood but will get you dead in real life.
The officer would continue to fire until the guy dropped.

So....are they training their police officers to shoot to kill and not stop until the victim is down, perhaps (or, maybe, preferably) dead?

It seems to me that with today's modern firearms there would not be any reason NOT to squeeze off a couple at the legs before aiming at the trunk...unless you are "gaining" something from aiming at a lethal point from the get-go. What could this cop have been gaining...kudos from the other cops with whom he works?

I often wonder how things work in the U.K., where we across the pond are told that their police force is unarmed with the exception of the night-stick. I read your post regarding your concern that the bad-guys would not surrender their firearms and yet the honest, law abiding citizens would...leaving the general public vulnerable. In this case the bad-guy turned out to be a police officer...

What a mess this is....as others have said, it now reeks of Watts and Harlem other violent U.S. demonstrations in the past....IMHO the pressure on the police has to be intense to diminish the level of angst and yet to do it without further lethal results. IMHO this could have been avoided if they had used less heavy-handed methods from the beginning.

My experience with all the police officers I have ever known (and I worked for our State prison system for 2 years, so that's a lot) is that they are all a bit of a control freak and also have this attitude that their decisions should not be challenged because they ARE the police...and if you do something they don't like (running and making them chase you to arrest you, that sort of thing) they will take it out on you in the most physically punishing manner possible. Unfortunately...a young man (and which of us did not make mistakes as young individuals) paid the ultimate price for his mistake.

Shouldn't the officer have to pay SOMETHING for his mistake?

Regards,

Doug

 

[Keith]

Personally, I feel much safer not having the Police routinely armed. I will take my chances with the crims.

Lightning can't strike twice in the same place can it? :shifty:

 

[Pat]

OK so why shoot an unarmed man dead.

Unconfirmed reports indicate that the officer suffered facial fractures during his initial confrontation with deceased Mr. Brown.
It may be that he was concerned for his safety or it may be that he was an angry racist who was a fatigued, poorly trained policeman and the recent reports are police propaganda.

We can also wait until the facts are in.

My condolences go out to the Brown and Wilson families in Ferguson, whose loved ones were involved in a life-ending altercation. No amount of speculation will alter the truth, which I believe the experts will arrive at after a careful recreation of events based on eyewitness' testimony and modern forensic analysis.
For now, hopes and prayers for calm in the community as evidence is gathered and details sorted out to bring to light the facts on that fateful day.

By the, what ever happened to the inquest into the shooting of the 29-year-old father of four shot by police officers who stopped the taxi in which he was traveling in the northern London neighborhood of Tottenham in August 2011? I seem to recall that there were riots and looting in London and spread to other cities in the worst disturbances in the country in decades.

 

[Nick]

Personally, I feel much safer not having the Police routinely armed. I will take my chances with the crims.

:shifty:

Amen to that, and when asked thank God so far our police have always voted not to be routinely armed.

 

[marc]

Hmm lets see 6'5 300lb charging me, If I was the policeman I would shoot til it stopped. even if I wasn't I still do so. The law is on the side of the policemen whether you like it or not. Deadly force is allowed when your life is threatened.

 

[Larry L.]

Personally, I feel much safer not having the Police routinely armed. I will take my chances with the crims.

Amen to that, and when asked thank God so far our police have always voted not to be routinely armed.

I take it one may assume from the above that the criminal element over there isn't "routinely armed"?

Call me crazy, but I'd much prefer to come face-to-face with an armed LEO than an armed dirtbag if only because odds are the LEO has no ill intent.

Lightning can't strike twice in the same place can it? :shifty:

Ask any tall building in any large city...

 

[Nick]

I take it one may assume from the above that the criminal element over there isn't "routinely armed"?

Call me crazy, but I'd much prefer to come face-to-face with an armed LEO than an armed dirtbag if only because odds are the LEO has no ill intent.




Ask any tall building in any large city...

Larry,

You are partially correct, our dirtbags are not routinely armed because thank God we do not have the right to bear arms, or the ability for virtually anybody to purchase a firearm. Yes I do know that criminals can get hold of guns in the UK but generally, there will be exceptions, they tend to be hardcore criminals who would for example not shoot someone because they cut them up in their car, or over some petty argument.

If dirtbags in the UK did have free access to firearms I would probably not be here now, I can live with a facial scar and the end of my modelling career.

It is interesting that despite your right to bear arms, the proliferation of guns amongst your citizens in the US to protect you and make you feel safe, your citizens and visitors to the US seem less safe and more frightened of being shot, and a higher possibility they will be shot than us in the UK.

 

[Keith]

By the, what ever happened to the inquest into the shooting of the 29-year-old father of four shot by police officers who stopped the taxi in which he was traveling in the northern London neighborhood of Tottenham in August 2011? I seem to recall that there were riots and looting in London and spread to other cities in the worst disturbances in the country in decades.

There was sufficient evidence that he was armed and that there was no case to answer for the police officer concerned, however, it did lead to a major armed response team retraining episode. The victim was a dirt bag and had just purchased a sterile gun with a view to carrying out a gang style execution. However, blah blah blah, etc....

I know a couple of these specialist firearms officers and believe me, it would be a lot safer if they weren't armed. The differential behaviour between the armed and the unarmed in the UK is massive. Here, an armed cop is (and often acts) like God.

It is changing though, as unfortunately the call for armed officers to situations is increasing. The general security situation doesn't help either.

 

[Doug S.]

Here, an armed cop is (and often acts) like God..

Quite obviously, one here in the US felt like he was God, too, and his actions deprived a teenager of his life.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Larry L.]

Quite obviously, one here in the US felt like he was God, too, and his actions deprived a teenager of his life.

...and, of course, we know the "teenager's" actions did not contribute to his death in any way, don't we.

None of us knows at this point whether or not the LEO 'played God'. None of us knows if Brown did something that warranted his being shot. We do know, however, that, on at least one occasion, Brown was a thief and 'strong arm' punk who didn't hesitate manhandling someone 1/2 his size if he felt like it. Have you seen the video? We also know he had 'weed' in his system when he died.

The jury is 'still out' (somewhat literally) with regard to handing down a verdict...and theirs is the only one that matters in the eyes of the law. (My bet is said jury won't be seated in Furgeson either.)

 

[Robert May Eng.]

It is changing though, as unfortunately the call for armed officers to situations is increasing. The general security situation doesn't help either.

Violent crime has increased because of the pc softly softly approach adopted by our police force. They have a crack down on street crime and all hell breaks loose. Its a thankless no win situation for them . I would like to see a full scale war on crime and drive the lawless scumbags back under the rocks they crawled out of , street scenes involving armed police would then become a rarity rather than commonplace. Answers for the problems across the pond ......... god knows.


Sharp increase in violent crime | Mail Online

Bob

 

[Larry L.]

...and visitors to the US seem less safe and more frightened of being shot, and a higher possibility they will be shot than us in the UK.

You might wanna take a look at the two 'tell-tale' maps here. 'Doesn't appear as though the U.S. is much of a 'hot spot' in the 'security-risk-to-tourists' department, does it:

The Most Dangerous Countries for Tourists, in Maps - The Atlantic


...and that's despite the fact the U.S. is second only to France in the total number of tourists who visit annually (and the #1 destination in the Americas by far):

World Tourism rankings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


'Twould appear, then, that there really aren't all that many tourists who are "frightened of being shot" while in the U.S. after all, huh.

 

[Larry L.]

Violent crime has increased because of the pc softly softly approach adopted by our police force. They have a crack down on street crime and all hell breaks loose. Its a thankless no win situation for them . I would like to see a full scale war on crime and drive the lawless scumbags back under the rocks they crawled out of , street scenes involving armed police would then become a rarity rather than commonplace. Answers for the problems across the pond ......... god knows.

The "answers" over here are exactly the same IMHO...for exactly the same reasons you've outlined.

 

[Nick]

'Twould appear, then, that there really aren't all that many tourists who are "frightened of being shot" while in the U.S. after all, huh.

Not really Larry I have visited the US and I like many from the UK I suspect, was more frightened of being shot their than at home.

So I would show up on your table as a visitor not as a fightened of being shot visitor huh .

Violent crime has increased because of the pc softly softly approach adopted by our police force. They have a crack down on street crime and all hell breaks loose. Its a thankless no win situation for them . I would like to see a full scale war on crime and drive the lawless scumbags back under the rocks they crawled out of , street scenes involving armed police would then become a rarity rather than commonplace. Answers for the problems across the pond ......... god knows.


Sharp increase in violent crime | Mail Online

Bob

Bob now I am confused same paper same date.


How Britain is becoming a SAFER place to live: Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ling-faster-Western-Europe.html#ixzz3AwzOm5KJ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Larry L.]

Not really Bob I have visited the US and I like many from the UK I suspect, was more frightened of being shot their than at home.

The question is: WHY? 'Sounds to me like the reason is simply that you've chosen (for whatever reason) to 'buy into' the media hype/sensationalism on the subject...the very kind of media hype/sensationalism we've so often roundly criticised right here on this forum.

No?

 

[Nick]

The question is: WHY? 'Sounds to me like the reason is simply that you've chosen (for whatever reason) to 'buy into' the media hype/sensationalism on the subject...the very kind of media hype/sensationalism we've so often roundly criticised right here on this forum.

No?

Et tu, Brute

Homicides per 100,000 head of population for 2009 to 2012, why on earth would I feel safer in the UK than the US no?


United Kingdom 1 1 1
United States 5 5 5 5

 

[Jack]

My town has a "Coffee with Cops" meeting every once in awhile. Anything goes conversations. BTW, our elected County Sheriff and most LEO's around here are great 2nd Amendment supporters. two-thirds of our town's population have weapons carry permits. Very little crime, home invasions, etc. hereabouts.

 

[Larry L.]

two-thirds of our town's population have weapons carry permits. Very little crime, home invasions, etc. hereabouts.

Gee.......................I wonder why! :lol:

 

[Larry L.]

Et tu, Brute

Homicides per 100,000 head of population for 2009 to 2012, why on earth would I feel safer in the UK than the US no?


United Kingdom 1 1 1
United States 5 5 5 5

The problem with stats like the above is they often don't differentiate between "homicides" as such, legit homicides (criminals killed by police in the commission of a crime) and suicides. So, when folks like you read those stats they just see "HOMICIDES!!!" in bold print and figure "MURDERS!!!"