Private plate theft (for the UK guys)

[Simon]

OK, I made a mistake, please don't post about what I should have done, I know that now. What I need to know is what can I do about it now.
I sold a car with a private plate on it last november. The new owner wanted it badly and didn't want to wait for me to take the plate off. So (like a fool) I let him take it with the plate attached and also with a "promise" to take the plate off and put it on retention and return it to me. Needless to say he hasn't. I have a sale receipt signed by him and me stating the numberplate is NOT part of the deal and is to be taken off and retuned to me on retention, I have written to the local DVLA office but they sent all my stuff back along with a V888 form for me to send to swansea (with a fee) to find out who owns the plate, but I already know, it's him the fu**er.
The DVLA have told me this normally becomes a "civic matter" what does this mean and what are my options (apart from visiting him with a big hammer?)
Simon

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

A civil matter means you need to get a lawyer involved to claim ownership and ask for the return of the plate.
Although your idea about the hammer may be more effective.

 

[40 Bud]

I don't know UK law. However it would seem to me that if you have a signed sales agreement stating that the plates are not part of the sale you should have th right to establish a price he would have to pay to retain them or return them. You need an attorney!

 

[Cliff Beer]

Ah, interesting.....so, with all the "lawyer bashing" on this forum as background, as soon as you get into trouble the first person you turn to to bail you out is, well, a lawyer........hhhhhmmmmmm.....

OK, just kidding gents.

Incidentally, I believe the DVLA is indicating that it's a "civil" matter, meaning, civil law....as opposed to "criminal" law related.

One thing that might put some pressure on however...... I'd suggest contacting the constabulary in his area, and filing a complaint alleging theft. You never know, a policeman might have the time and initiative to go by the guy's house and take a statement in response. That might be all that's necessary to get him off his butt and mail the plates back to you. Just an idea.

 

[Simon]

The short version of the story is he's a dealer posing as a private purchaser when buying.
He bought a Renault scenic from me last November and didn't want to wait until I'd removed the plate before he collected it.
he promised to remove the plate immediately as he was buying the car "for his wife"
I subsequently found out he was a trader and sold the car in Feb via autotrader.
he mis represented the mileage and the new owner has reported him to trading standards. he has told me that if it comes to court he will call me to stand and lie on his behalf, saying that I mis-represented the mileage or I will not get my number plate back. basically I have to take the blame for his wrongdoing or I'm stuffed. he's basically blackmailing me but according to the DVLA I can't do a thing about it.
For your information, his name is Jim Lewis and he is now trading as Apple Cars in Bournemouth.
we have had several conversations by phone and he has threatened to "come round and do me in" more than once.
The man's a complete ba5tard but there's nothing I can do.

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Did you not put the actual mileage on any paperwork when you sold the vehicle? If so, you have proof that you disclosed the mileage at time of sale and his "loss of miles" is his handiwork.

Remember, a contract (agreement) is only as good as the people who make it!

 

[Keith]

The short version of the story is he's a dealer posing as a private purchaser when buying.
He bought a Renault scenic from me last November and didn't want to wait until I'd removed the plate before he collected it.
he promised to remove the plate immediately as he was buying the car "for his wife"
I subsequently found out he was a trader and sold the car in Feb via autotrader.
he mis represented the mileage and the new owner has reported him to trading standards. he has told me that if it comes to court he will call me to stand and lie on his behalf, saying that I mis-represented the mileage or I will not get my number plate back. basically I have to take the blame for his wrongdoing or I'm stuffed. he's basically blackmailing me but according to the DVLA I can't do a thing about it.
For your information, his name is Jim Lewis and he is now trading as Apple Cars in Bournemouth.
we have had several conversations by phone and he has threatened to "come round and do me in" more than once.
The man's a complete ba5tard but there's nothing I can do.

Honestly? I'd chalk it up to experience mate..

PS PM me the Reg No. Simon - I am only 20 minutes from B/Mouth.

Revenge Ploy: If he still has the plate and is using it on a car registered to him, then we'll borrow a similar car, put on that Reg No. and go for a fast drive through every speed camera in the South..

Under the totting up system he could be banned from driving for months.. :laugh:

 

[Chris E]

Simon
I'd treat the reg number issue, and the mileage issue, as two completely separate things.

On the reg number, if you have paperwork to prove it was not included in the sale, then you could take him to the small claims court. You don't need a lawyer. You just fill in a form explaining your claim and submit it with a relativley small fee.
One way to show him you mean business, is to fill in the form, sign it, ( but don't date it ) then send him a copy with a letter giving him, say, 14 days to resolve the issue, and tell him that if he doesn't, you will fill in the date and submit it to the court.
You could ask the court either to give you the number back, or it's value if he has sold it on.
You can easily establish the value by looking at what the DVLA are selling similar numbers for now.

On the mileage issue, I'm sure you won't want to lie about what it was when you sold the car to him, so you could either be clear to anyone who asks what you remember the mileage being when you sold the car, or decline to say unless you are officially asked/instructed to give evidence.

Good luck mate!

 

[Keith]

The Small Claims Court will not adjudicate on ownership of the plate but will apply a judgement on the value if the Defendent is in default of payment for it.

See this site: You can do it all on line: https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

You will have to get it valued and then send an invoice to this man giving him 14 days to pay or the plate back or you "will have no option etc" . Send all this by recorded delivery. I would think you would get no response to this, so do another letter in stronger terms asking for the same thing an d saying you will be applying interest at the Govt rate for late payments to the sum. You probably won't get a reply to that either. Then, go to the on-line court and file a claim against him, but please take this advice:

I'm sure he will not be bothered about a CCJ on his premises although if he fails to offer a defence, then that's what will happen. You will then have a choice of whether to have the Warrant "Executed" or apply for a Charging Order. Having the Warrant Executed means that the local court will send Court Officers (Bailiffs) to the Defendents premises (or the address to which the summons was served). They are then entitled to seize goods to the value of the warrant but they cannot take personal items or items leased or contracted from a third party.

This is where you have to consider whether he has anything on the premises that he actually owns, and the answer to that is: probably nothing. Personally, I would find out where he lives and file the Claim against that address as Him (personally) Trading AS.....Apple etc.

The advantage of this is that you can then apply for a Charging Order on his property which won't get you the money straight away but he will have to pay eventually when he sells the property, couple with the certain fact that a CCJ on his personal house will cause him no end of grief and he won't want that.

It's fairly straight forward process and will cost you about £120 in Court Fees, but it can be done from the comfort of your armchair.

But in the end, if he doesn't want to pay - he won't and there's not much you can do about it.

However, I think he may have STOLEN your property but only a solicitor can tell you that. The first hour is usually free - good luck but still please send me the Reg. No. by PM and I'll look it up for you...

 

[Graham]

Simon,

I can't offer you any help, but I can offer you my condolences. These people rely on the fact that most of us will chalk it up to experience and do nothng about it. I (like you) have been stung in the past by people like this (and have lost a few thousand pounds in the process).
Anyway enough about me. Good luck with whatever you choose to do and don't let aresholes like these stop you from being a decent trusting human being. If that happens, then they have won!

Cheers,

Graham.

 

[Simon]

Just got off the phone with the local police. he has transfered my plate (S1 GTD by the way) onto another car! it's not even on retention! they are going to speak to him to try and sort it out as I have paid him £120 to place the number plate on retention for me and he hasn't done it, it is now of interest to the police as a criminal matter. They have also told me there are "markers" against the number plate but couldn't go into any further datail.

Simon

ps, how do I find out what it's on now? apparently it's not registered to him.

 

[Simon]

Just found out from Dorset police that the plate is now on a black Mercedes convertible!

 

[Chris E]

Keith Hardy said:

The Small Claims Court will not adjudicate on ownership of the plate but will apply a judgement on the value if the Defendent is in default of payment for it.



But he might not know that!

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

I would think that asking you too commit perjury on his behalf and then you get the plate back is an attempt to pervert the course of Justice,
and a criminal act in itself. What did the plods say when you told them about that?

 

[Randy V]

I know nothing of UK / European Registration but here in the USA if you get pulled over with a plate on a car that it's not registered to, the car is impounded and you may well go to the pokey..

What does the plate say? Personalized?

 

[Randy V]

we have had several conversations by phone and he has threatened to "come round and do me in" more than once.
The man's a complete ba5tard but there's nothing I can do.

Wait a second - He threatens you with bodily harm and the police will do nothing????

 

[Bill Musarra]

I would think that you could record any conversation that you have with this individual to be used in any civil/criminal matter. Your answering machine should suffice. I guess it would depend on what your laws are about recording someone, whether you have to inform them or not.
Of course you could record the conversation and once he has committed himself, say "oh by the way!!!" You probably could not use it but I think he would get the message, maybe reverse blackmail even.

Bill