Mike
Lifetime Supporter
Racing Setup - Hooptie 500
- Thread starter bigds01
- Start date
Howard Jones
Supporter
Re: Racing Setup?
Here's what I KNOW. My GTD has been run at Thunderhill, Sears Point, and Willows Springs all in California. And another track outside of Reno that I think is closed now. The fastest is Willows so I will talk about that.
The long run down from the top of the hill down to turn 9 is the fastest place on the track. I think someone told me the track record is held by Michael Andretti in a CART car in the 90s. 900+HP, 1500 pounds, and full ground effect underbody with skirts. Top speed down at hill was about 185-190 and through 9 about 160.
My car now. Leave the top of the hill in 3rd at about 60 change to 4th pretty quickly and then about 125-128 and into 5th for about 2 sec of full power up to about 135. Down to 4th for turn 9 at about 90 and back to 5th at the center of the front straight for another 2 sec and up to about 125 befor brakes into turn 1.
So you are asking what it would take to get 200 at the end of the long downhill run and then get it down to about 100 at 9.
I was going to say 2000 hp and a parachute but I will keep this real. Double the grip with huge wheels and real race rubber. At least half weight of the car in downforce, call that 1200-1500 pounds. 4 times the power, lets say 1200hp at the wheels. This is a complete redesign of the car top to bottom. It would cost less to buy a modern real racecar like a ALMS P1 prototype or a Daytona prototype and throw huge money at it. Both of those cars would need +1000 HP and huge downforce increases to make that happen..........maybe. Oh and a real racedriver...........not a old want to be like me. I value the few good years I have left.
All that and you will see 2 secs at 200MPH per lap.
With full respece to your question I think that 200MPH isn't really something that is realistic in a GT40 kitcar. By the way, has anybody done 200 (timed for real) in a replica GT40 yet. I know there have been some high 190's in England at an airfield. Frank was involved if I remember correctly.
Here's what I KNOW. My GTD has been run at Thunderhill, Sears Point, and Willows Springs all in California. And another track outside of Reno that I think is closed now. The fastest is Willows so I will talk about that.
The long run down from the top of the hill down to turn 9 is the fastest place on the track. I think someone told me the track record is held by Michael Andretti in a CART car in the 90s. 900+HP, 1500 pounds, and full ground effect underbody with skirts. Top speed down at hill was about 185-190 and through 9 about 160.
My car now. Leave the top of the hill in 3rd at about 60 change to 4th pretty quickly and then about 125-128 and into 5th for about 2 sec of full power up to about 135. Down to 4th for turn 9 at about 90 and back to 5th at the center of the front straight for another 2 sec and up to about 125 befor brakes into turn 1.
So you are asking what it would take to get 200 at the end of the long downhill run and then get it down to about 100 at 9.
I was going to say 2000 hp and a parachute but I will keep this real. Double the grip with huge wheels and real race rubber. At least half weight of the car in downforce, call that 1200-1500 pounds. 4 times the power, lets say 1200hp at the wheels. This is a complete redesign of the car top to bottom. It would cost less to buy a modern real racecar like a ALMS P1 prototype or a Daytona prototype and throw huge money at it. Both of those cars would need +1000 HP and huge downforce increases to make that happen..........maybe. Oh and a real racedriver...........not a old want to be like me. I value the few good years I have left.
All that and you will see 2 secs at 200MPH per lap.
With full respece to your question I think that 200MPH isn't really something that is realistic in a GT40 kitcar. By the way, has anybody done 200 (timed for real) in a replica GT40 yet. I know there have been some high 190's in England at an airfield. Frank was involved if I remember correctly.
Last edited:
Re: Racing Setup?
200mph thats 320k
I have done 230k at a lockal track in Sydney ,you start to think about shit at that speed.
320k IM no coward but that would not be fun if you were able to atain it.
Jim
200mph thats 320k
I have done 230k at a lockal track in Sydney ,you start to think about shit at that speed.
320k IM no coward but that would not be fun if you were able to atain it.
Jim
Re: Racing Setup?
I agree with you. I ran in Road America my old ERA GT and could barely had the cojones to do over 140mph. I had a 962 that lap me twice in my first lap. That was a rocket. My second GT has serious brakes, a much bigger engine and much bigger tires. Now it needs a young driver.
I agree with you. I ran in Road America my old ERA GT and could barely had the cojones to do over 140mph. I had a 962 that lap me twice in my first lap. That was a rocket. My second GT has serious brakes, a much bigger engine and much bigger tires. Now it needs a young driver.
Re: Racing Setup?
200mph+ in any street car, on any NA circuit track, even with hot rod bits added is absolutely extraordinary. Unbelievable in my limited experience. Stock top speed of the 599 is just a hair over 200, and that's with a 2-3 miles (or more) of dead straight and flat and level to get up to speed. No GT40 is getting near 200mph on any NA circuit track. Seems like a silly line of inquiry.
If you want to get anywhere near those speeds you'll need an indy car or an ALMS unlimited or similar, and a very flat and straight and level straightaway. And even then, good luck. Let's get real.
Beware of flying cars. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8XxQkXCmsU]BIG Porsche flip at Road Atlanta - YouTube[/ame]
200mph+ in any street car, on any NA circuit track, even with hot rod bits added is absolutely extraordinary. Unbelievable in my limited experience. Stock top speed of the 599 is just a hair over 200, and that's with a 2-3 miles (or more) of dead straight and flat and level to get up to speed. No GT40 is getting near 200mph on any NA circuit track. Seems like a silly line of inquiry.
If you want to get anywhere near those speeds you'll need an indy car or an ALMS unlimited or similar, and a very flat and straight and level straightaway. And even then, good luck. Let's get real.
Beware of flying cars. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8XxQkXCmsU]BIG Porsche flip at Road Atlanta - YouTube[/ame]
Mike
Lifetime Supporter
Re: Racing Setup?
The Flying Porsche is a modern car. What would a 50 year design GT40 do.
The Flying Porsche is a modern car. What would a 50 year design GT40 do.
Re: Racing Setup?
My car is just fine at 170mph. It handles the bumps and humps of the track I run it on far better than many modern supercars. Lift is not an issue at that speed, in fact many of those supposedly downforce producing modern cars display obvious lift where my car is happily hunkered down - at almost the fastest part of this track there is a hump and my car is not disturbed by it - I assure you that that cannot be said for the cars alluded to above. Unfortunately there is no legal opportunity near me to go faster.
170 isn't 200 but my car behaves very well in comparison to "modern" cars at that speed.
230k Jim? Serious? At that speed all I'm thinking is how can I get the damn thing to go faster. ;p
FWIW I am told an Australian car has done a measured 186 mph but I have no evidence to show. Maybe someone else here does?
This 200 mph thing just keeps going around and around on this forum... IMO this comparison with the Ford GT is not interesting, although in some ways similar it is a different car altogether, and anyway for all the brochure noise about it it didn't take much to fix. Car designers make a big fuss about all the effort they have made to make a tail-light work.
On the 200mph subject The nay sayers will continue to say nay and others will continue to say yea.
But, this conversation was originally about the tracks mentioned and 200mph sounds like a dream if the information supplied about high end race car speeds there is correct.
PS. I don't remember flipping being an issue for the mk1 50 years ago - the more "modern" American designed cars had their problems though... J car was plain nasty.
PPS. It must be said that each man's GT40 will be different. All sorts of things will affect the high speed experience. I have the right race computers for lap times so downforce isnt an issue anyway... Electronics fixes everything right? ;p
Tim.
My car is just fine at 170mph. It handles the bumps and humps of the track I run it on far better than many modern supercars. Lift is not an issue at that speed, in fact many of those supposedly downforce producing modern cars display obvious lift where my car is happily hunkered down - at almost the fastest part of this track there is a hump and my car is not disturbed by it - I assure you that that cannot be said for the cars alluded to above. Unfortunately there is no legal opportunity near me to go faster.
170 isn't 200 but my car behaves very well in comparison to "modern" cars at that speed.
230k Jim? Serious? At that speed all I'm thinking is how can I get the damn thing to go faster. ;p
FWIW I am told an Australian car has done a measured 186 mph but I have no evidence to show. Maybe someone else here does?
This 200 mph thing just keeps going around and around on this forum... IMO this comparison with the Ford GT is not interesting, although in some ways similar it is a different car altogether, and anyway for all the brochure noise about it it didn't take much to fix. Car designers make a big fuss about all the effort they have made to make a tail-light work.
On the 200mph subject The nay sayers will continue to say nay and others will continue to say yea.
But, this conversation was originally about the tracks mentioned and 200mph sounds like a dream if the information supplied about high end race car speeds there is correct.
PS. I don't remember flipping being an issue for the mk1 50 years ago - the more "modern" American designed cars had their problems though... J car was plain nasty.
PPS. It must be said that each man's GT40 will be different. All sorts of things will affect the high speed experience. I have the right race computers for lap times so downforce isnt an issue anyway... Electronics fixes everything right? ;p
Tim.
Last edited:
Glenn M
Supporter
Re: Racing Setup?
Howard,
if you're talking about my runs, Frank was not involved at all. However Mick (Sollis) was, my car is a Southern GT.
Glenn
Howard,
if you're talking about my runs, Frank was not involved at all. However Mick (Sollis) was, my car is a Southern GT.
Glenn
Re: Racing Setup?
IIRC the 'first' three cars ( 101 thru 103?) had major aero problems in their Le Mans test debut.
IIRC the 'first' three cars ( 101 thru 103?) had major aero problems in their Le Mans test debut.
Re: Racing Setup?
My 40 has 200MPH plates. Does that help this conversation?
Reality check - I hit 230 kph down the hill at wanneroo raceway. Then it's time for this little thing called a corner that seem to get in the way of top speed. Who'd have thought it?!
Quickest for me was 1000m standing start event. About 6600 rpm in 5th, 255 kph official trap speed. Guess I've got the plates still...to go with the dreams.
My 40 has 200MPH plates. Does that help this conversation?
Reality check - I hit 230 kph down the hill at wanneroo raceway. Then it's time for this little thing called a corner that seem to get in the way of top speed. Who'd have thought it?!
Quickest for me was 1000m standing start event. About 6600 rpm in 5th, 255 kph official trap speed. Guess I've got the plates still...to go with the dreams.
Howard Jones
Supporter
Re: Racing Setup?
Glenn, Well I got the country right! Sorry I am getting older by the day. I think that there have been a couple of high speed GT40's attempts over there. May be Frank was in another.........or not. I seem to recall.......there I go again that this was before Southern GT and it was a GTD. I thought the video was on the GTD club site a long time ago. But regardless of my bad memory how did it go. How long was the run and how fast did you get it going?
My guess would be better than 500HP to get a GT40 to 180+ in anything less than a mile, but I might be wrong. What did you guys run for power and gears. Any problems with aero at high speed (+175)?
This thread could use some real information. I have had my GTD to about 150. Didn't like it, won't do it again. Don't ask where. The car felt stable but you begine to wonder about things falling apart.........everything.........a lot can go wrong at that speed and it can happen very quickly.
150 on a road race track happens at the end of the straights for just a second or two. This is a lot different than a top speed run that might take a 3/4 minute or more. The loads/ risks go up very quickly beyond 170. I was looking at the videos of land speed guys who run 200-250. It takes a LONG time to get going that fast and a lot of HP. Google land speed incar videos, also Utube. Very interesting reality check. Especially what it takes to do those speeds. 225 seems to be a line that only real race cars run by real seriously funded teams cross now a days.
To just put a big motor in a kitcar and go for it will get somebody killed. Like they say on tv, don't try this at home.
Glenn, Well I got the country right! Sorry I am getting older by the day. I think that there have been a couple of high speed GT40's attempts over there. May be Frank was in another.........or not. I seem to recall.......there I go again that this was before Southern GT and it was a GTD. I thought the video was on the GTD club site a long time ago. But regardless of my bad memory how did it go. How long was the run and how fast did you get it going?
My guess would be better than 500HP to get a GT40 to 180+ in anything less than a mile, but I might be wrong. What did you guys run for power and gears. Any problems with aero at high speed (+175)?
This thread could use some real information. I have had my GTD to about 150. Didn't like it, won't do it again. Don't ask where. The car felt stable but you begine to wonder about things falling apart.........everything.........a lot can go wrong at that speed and it can happen very quickly.
150 on a road race track happens at the end of the straights for just a second or two. This is a lot different than a top speed run that might take a 3/4 minute or more. The loads/ risks go up very quickly beyond 170. I was looking at the videos of land speed guys who run 200-250. It takes a LONG time to get going that fast and a lot of HP. Google land speed incar videos, also Utube. Very interesting reality check. Especially what it takes to do those speeds. 225 seems to be a line that only real race cars run by real seriously funded teams cross now a days.
To just put a big motor in a kitcar and go for it will get somebody killed. Like they say on tv, don't try this at home.
Re: Racing Setup?
If I recall, it is something like 10x hp required to go from 100-200 then from 0-100.
What is a more reasonable top speed or avg lap speed that some have seen at the bigger named tracks? I mean my 2.9l e30 hits 130 on any road track that has a 2/3 of a mile straightaway.
If I recall, it is something like 10x hp required to go from 100-200 then from 0-100.
What is a more reasonable top speed or avg lap speed that some have seen at the bigger named tracks? I mean my 2.9l e30 hits 130 on any road track that has a 2/3 of a mile straightaway.
Re: Racing Setup?
To illustrate Howard's point here is a really good write up from a ford engineer on getting a stock Mark VIII Lincoln past 180 at Bonneville
1993 Bonneville Mark VIII
To illustrate Howard's point here is a really good write up from a ford engineer on getting a stock Mark VIII Lincoln past 180 at Bonneville
1993 Bonneville Mark VIII
Trond
Lifetime Supporter
Re: Racing Setup?
Hi
My Superformance mkII 2005 (one of the first "prototypes") has a Roush 427R 550hp and ZF/RBT transmission. Standard brakes, "normal" ride height (just adjusted to be sure the front is a little bit lower then the rear), 17" wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport tires, otherwise standard as delivered from SPF.
I have driven the car at a new highway in Poland at 305 km/h. Measured by gps.
The car was steady, thoug extremly noisy! We ran out of straight road, but I think I could have done some 10 or 15 km/h more.
On the track I experience the car to be higly capable, and so far only pure track cars has been able to beat the "old" GT-40. I also have a Porsche 996 GT-2, tuned to 590HP and with completely new suspension with GMG suspension parts, Stoptech competition brakes/Endless race pads and JRZ adjustable coilowers. With identical tires I run the same lap times with the two cars. When I run slicks the Porsche is struggeling to keep up.....
Buttom line, the GT-40 is a higly capable car that only a few constructions can beat. The fact that the tecnology is mid -60 just adds an extra edge to it. But of course, you have the heat, the noise and the dust as an additional "joy" and you really have to work compared to driving the Porsche og a Ferrari. But lord what fun!
Best regards
Trond
Hi
My Superformance mkII 2005 (one of the first "prototypes") has a Roush 427R 550hp and ZF/RBT transmission. Standard brakes, "normal" ride height (just adjusted to be sure the front is a little bit lower then the rear), 17" wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport tires, otherwise standard as delivered from SPF.
I have driven the car at a new highway in Poland at 305 km/h. Measured by gps.
The car was steady, thoug extremly noisy! We ran out of straight road, but I think I could have done some 10 or 15 km/h more.
On the track I experience the car to be higly capable, and so far only pure track cars has been able to beat the "old" GT-40. I also have a Porsche 996 GT-2, tuned to 590HP and with completely new suspension with GMG suspension parts, Stoptech competition brakes/Endless race pads and JRZ adjustable coilowers. With identical tires I run the same lap times with the two cars. When I run slicks the Porsche is struggeling to keep up.....
Buttom line, the GT-40 is a higly capable car that only a few constructions can beat. The fact that the tecnology is mid -60 just adds an extra edge to it. But of course, you have the heat, the noise and the dust as an additional "joy" and you really have to work compared to driving the Porsche og a Ferrari. But lord what fun!
Best regards
Trond
