Mike
Lifetime Supporter
Racing Setup - Hooptie 500
- Thread starter bigds01
- Start date
Re: Racing Setup?
OP was a "hit and run"....or he is too busy with the "race series" he owns.
OP was a "hit and run"....or he is too busy with the "race series" he owns.
Ron Earp
Admin
Re: Racing Setup?
That's a pretty crowded market segment. SCCA and NASA are certainly long-time staples there, with NASA being a relative newcomer in comparison to the SCCA.
And even newer still are LeMons and ChumpCar, or affectionately known as LeChump when spoken of as a demographic group of racers. I'm dubious as if there is room for another amatuer racing organization or series. Entries on the ground are already hard-fought over as the economy has taken a toll on racers. A lot of it is coming back, but I feel that LeMons and Chump are on the crux of merging, imploding, or something happening there as there just isn't enough room for all of them.
That's a pretty crowded market segment. SCCA and NASA are certainly long-time staples there, with NASA being a relative newcomer in comparison to the SCCA.
And even newer still are LeMons and ChumpCar, or affectionately known as LeChump when spoken of as a demographic group of racers. I'm dubious as if there is room for another amatuer racing organization or series. Entries on the ground are already hard-fought over as the economy has taken a toll on racers. A lot of it is coming back, but I feel that LeMons and Chump are on the crux of merging, imploding, or something happening there as there just isn't enough room for all of them.
Re: Racing Setup?
Well if you are interested in racing let me know. We have quite the line up of drivers that will be in each race. View it as those that have graduated from Lemons but don't really care for SCCA. We have already secured television and internet rights for our series, so it gives any racer great exposure.
Well if you are interested in racing let me know. We have quite the line up of drivers that will be in each race. View it as those that have graduated from Lemons but don't really care for SCCA. We have already secured television and internet rights for our series, so it gives any racer great exposure.
Re: Racing Setup?
Understand. The purpose of the thread was, what would it take to get 200 on a road course, that's it.
Understand. The purpose of the thread was, what would it take to get 200 on a road course, that's it.
Re: Racing Setup?
Please let us know who's in that driver line up. We're all interested.
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Re: Racing Setup?
jmvelez, we have had this before. Please don't post people's personal information, even if there are tools to search for it on the Internet. The post has been removed.
jmvelez, we have had this before. Please don't post people's personal information, even if there are tools to search for it on the Internet. The post has been removed.
Re: Racing Setup?
Come to our inaugural race next spring and hell I will let you drive it.
Come to our inaugural race next spring and hell I will let you drive it.
Ron Earp
Admin
Re: Racing Setup?
So racers that have graduated from Lemons but don't care for the SCCA. Have any of these racers ever raced in the SCCA? What about the SCCA don't they care for?
I'm a critic of the SCCA for various reasons, but, it is where I choose to race due to the stability of classes, stability of the rules structure, and most importantly, the competition. A race series or race organization is nothing if it can't generate tight wheel to wheel racing and that is where the SCCA excels.
What are the race licensing requirements to drive in "Hooptie 500"? What are the safety rules with respect to cage design? What sort of cars are envisioned to be the class staples?
So racers that have graduated from Lemons but don't care for the SCCA. Have any of these racers ever raced in the SCCA? What about the SCCA don't they care for?
I'm a critic of the SCCA for various reasons, but, it is where I choose to race due to the stability of classes, stability of the rules structure, and most importantly, the competition. A race series or race organization is nothing if it can't generate tight wheel to wheel racing and that is where the SCCA excels.
What are the race licensing requirements to drive in "Hooptie 500"? What are the safety rules with respect to cage design? What sort of cars are envisioned to be the class staples?
Re: Racing Setup?
Ron-- Have you been in a lemons race? I would say half are experienced people and half just showed up to be in a race. I would also say that there is a lot of potential opportunity to offer a better product to the half that have more experience.
Ron-- Have you been in a lemons race? I would say half are experienced people and half just showed up to be in a race. I would also say that there is a lot of potential opportunity to offer a better product to the half that have more experience.
Ron Earp
Admin
Re: Racing Setup?
There are many experienced racers at LeChump. I've friends who race the Lemons/Chump series who are long-time SCCA racers. Randy Pobst races with a team of folks I know well, James Clay from Bimmerworld races with another, so yes, there are even professional racers who dip into Lemons and Chump.
But, they'll be the first to tell you that LeMons is a far cry from competitive wheel to wheel racing. Sure, there is a lot of passing in LeMons, but not passing for the lead on the same lap nor between cars of equal capabilities. Penalty laps, team penalties, judges, sharks strapped to the roof, Toyota minivans under airplane skins, all of that leads to an atmosphere that is more about having fun and lapping on track than racing.
The half of Chump/Lemons that are experienced with real W2W racing have places to race now - SCCA, NASA, Midwest Council, etc. So, back to specifics about your Hooptie 500 series:
*What about the SCCA/NASA/Council (or other established race club) does your intended demographic not care for?
*What are the race licensing requirements to drive in "Hooptie 500"?
*What are the safety rules with respect to cage design?
*What sort of cars are envisioned to be the class staples?
There are many experienced racers at LeChump. I've friends who race the Lemons/Chump series who are long-time SCCA racers. Randy Pobst races with a team of folks I know well, James Clay from Bimmerworld races with another, so yes, there are even professional racers who dip into Lemons and Chump.
But, they'll be the first to tell you that LeMons is a far cry from competitive wheel to wheel racing. Sure, there is a lot of passing in LeMons, but not passing for the lead on the same lap nor between cars of equal capabilities. Penalty laps, team penalties, judges, sharks strapped to the roof, Toyota minivans under airplane skins, all of that leads to an atmosphere that is more about having fun and lapping on track than racing.
The half of Chump/Lemons that are experienced with real W2W racing have places to race now - SCCA, NASA, Midwest Council, etc. So, back to specifics about your Hooptie 500 series:
*What about the SCCA/NASA/Council (or other established race club) does your intended demographic not care for?
*What are the race licensing requirements to drive in "Hooptie 500"?
*What are the safety rules with respect to cage design?
*What sort of cars are envisioned to be the class staples?
Re: Racing Setup?
Unfortunately I can't answer some of your questions right now due to a number of planned announcements, however, here are a few that I can.
From a SCCA/NASA perspective the fasting growing segment of auto racing is non formal licensed long form endurance races. You can argue about lemons or chump but they have gotten incredible numbers of drivers on a yearly basis. With that said as we will not have race licensing requirements other than having a drivers license it puts us at a competitive advantage to those series that require a multi-class formal licensing process.
For the cage you will see virtually the exact same rules that are used in other series' so cars can be used in multiple venues.
Our class structure, types of cars, overall rules, technology plans I will be able to share in mid-fall.
Unfortunately I can't answer some of your questions right now due to a number of planned announcements, however, here are a few that I can.
From a SCCA/NASA perspective the fasting growing segment of auto racing is non formal licensed long form endurance races. You can argue about lemons or chump but they have gotten incredible numbers of drivers on a yearly basis. With that said as we will not have race licensing requirements other than having a drivers license it puts us at a competitive advantage to those series that require a multi-class formal licensing process.
For the cage you will see virtually the exact same rules that are used in other series' so cars can be used in multiple venues.
Our class structure, types of cars, overall rules, technology plans I will be able to share in mid-fall.
Howard Jones
Supporter
Re: Racing Setup?
This thread is still going a hell of a lot slower than 200mph. Or is a marketing ploy for a new up in comming race series? Just post the frigging signup information and dates when its ready for god sake.
It does however sound like a sort of track day sign up yourself with a real race car and go wheel to wheel racing kind of thing. I have run some pick your group without any oversight track days and believe me damn near everybody thinks they belong in the fast group.
Which by the way makes the slow group the best one to run in. Nobody there except the good drivers who can see what's going on.
This thread is still going a hell of a lot slower than 200mph. Or is a marketing ploy for a new up in comming race series? Just post the frigging signup information and dates when its ready for god sake.
It does however sound like a sort of track day sign up yourself with a real race car and go wheel to wheel racing kind of thing. I have run some pick your group without any oversight track days and believe me damn near everybody thinks they belong in the fast group.
Which by the way makes the slow group the best one to run in. Nobody there except the good drivers who can see what's going on.
Ok, let's review the thread.
I asked is it possible to go 200 on a road track. Told I was an idiot, mentioned I had in another one of my cars, told I am pretentious and a liar, had my personal information posted and a new company name WITHOUT me posting it first, then have to defend said Company that let's face it many of you would think it would be awesome to own a race series.
First experience with Internet tough guys, but one I have enjoyed. I will limit my future posts to asking about brake calipers.
I asked is it possible to go 200 on a road track. Told I was an idiot, mentioned I had in another one of my cars, told I am pretentious and a liar, had my personal information posted and a new company name WITHOUT me posting it first, then have to defend said Company that let's face it many of you would think it would be awesome to own a race series.
First experience with Internet tough guys, but one I have enjoyed. I will limit my future posts to asking about brake calipers.
OK, here's a somewhat serious answer to the orignal question, at least form my point of view.
Horsepower/torque - while somewhat important, not overly so. You need enough to get up to 200 mph quickly since, as others have pointed out, road courses with long enough straights or two or more straights connected by easy turns to minimize speed loss are few and far between. The Gulf GT40s did it with around 450HP or so according to what I have read. Probably more important than max HP/torque is the power curve. A very broad/flat curve is important so you can stay at or near peak at a wide RPM range.
Gearing - probably most important. Close ratios for a road circuit is necessary so you can get through the gears quickly in both directions. A tall final drive ratio so you can get up to 200 mph, and a first that isn't too useless. Again, matching ratios to power band/RPM range is crucial.
Brakes - good balance and plenty of stopping power. To get you down from 200 mph safely as well as aid in the turns to keep your engine at or near your power band.
Chassis/suspension - stiff is good, but not a be all end all. Again, safety and cornering are at play, but, as Shelby once noted, maybe it was a good thing the 427 Cobras had less than stellar chassis and flexed a bit, as that is probaly the only reason why they were able to keep the power to the wheels mostly on the ground.
Aero - need to keep the car on the ground with enough downforce to make it drivable. Also need to balance it with engine power - more downforce will require more power to keep it moving.
Weight - technically this is not important at all from a realistic point of view as all of the GT40 replicas are light enough to make this a non-issue. Obviously, the heavier the car, the more power necessary to get it up to speed. Shaving a few pounds here and there will help, and a CF chassis would definitely help more, but a well designed mono tub or space frame with sheeting would still keep you in a weight range where 200 mph is doable.
All of this is based on notebook and armchair hypothesis, and I welcome any corrections and additions.
Ian
Horsepower/torque - while somewhat important, not overly so. You need enough to get up to 200 mph quickly since, as others have pointed out, road courses with long enough straights or two or more straights connected by easy turns to minimize speed loss are few and far between. The Gulf GT40s did it with around 450HP or so according to what I have read. Probably more important than max HP/torque is the power curve. A very broad/flat curve is important so you can stay at or near peak at a wide RPM range.
Gearing - probably most important. Close ratios for a road circuit is necessary so you can get through the gears quickly in both directions. A tall final drive ratio so you can get up to 200 mph, and a first that isn't too useless. Again, matching ratios to power band/RPM range is crucial.
Brakes - good balance and plenty of stopping power. To get you down from 200 mph safely as well as aid in the turns to keep your engine at or near your power band.
Chassis/suspension - stiff is good, but not a be all end all. Again, safety and cornering are at play, but, as Shelby once noted, maybe it was a good thing the 427 Cobras had less than stellar chassis and flexed a bit, as that is probaly the only reason why they were able to keep the power to the wheels mostly on the ground.
Aero - need to keep the car on the ground with enough downforce to make it drivable. Also need to balance it with engine power - more downforce will require more power to keep it moving.
Weight - technically this is not important at all from a realistic point of view as all of the GT40 replicas are light enough to make this a non-issue. Obviously, the heavier the car, the more power necessary to get it up to speed. Shaving a few pounds here and there will help, and a CF chassis would definitely help more, but a well designed mono tub or space frame with sheeting would still keep you in a weight range where 200 mph is doable.
All of this is based on notebook and armchair hypothesis, and I welcome any corrections and additions.
Ian
