Senna vs Schumacher
- Thread starter theon
- Start date
Thanks for responding, I am looking forward to other answers. I also believe Senna to be the fastest ever. I grown up watching his races and he was my favorite driver. It is hard to debate drivers from different eras or teams because it is often never equal footing head to head of course.
Theon
Theon
Senna was fast, but flawed. He committed quite a few major unforced errors in his career, but when it came together his absolute passion won the day.
What Schumacher (in his day, not now) taught us, is that with his kind of dedication he could repeat that fastest lap day after day after day even in a second rate car.
Many of the tactics he developed are still the basis of many teams strategies now.
To be honest, they are like chalk and cheese. An artist versus an engineer and therefore brook no meaningful comparison. If you were a "racer" you would want to be Senna but if you were a "must win at all costs" then you would want to be Schumacher.
But, I would have to pick Schumacher as you could never be sure that Senna wasn't going to chuck his toys out of the pram at the crucial moment.
What Schumacher (in his day, not now) taught us, is that with his kind of dedication he could repeat that fastest lap day after day after day even in a second rate car.
Many of the tactics he developed are still the basis of many teams strategies now.
To be honest, they are like chalk and cheese. An artist versus an engineer and therefore brook no meaningful comparison. If you were a "racer" you would want to be Senna but if you were a "must win at all costs" then you would want to be Schumacher.
But, I would have to pick Schumacher as you could never be sure that Senna wasn't going to chuck his toys out of the pram at the crucial moment.
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
In which case should you also add Prost to the equation?
He was just good enough to get out when it was right for him to do so!
Actually I still believe the best drivers came from the 60's
Moss, Hill, Stewart, Clark, McLaren, Brabham, Rindt
The car control and ability to actually drive without aids, wings, aero, sticky tyres etc. relying on car feel, control and smoothness would win for me.
that said from the to to choose from Schuey gets my vote for being consistently quick and he would drive untill it broke - remember the race when he drove half of it in a single gear? Most others spit the dummy and retire
Ian
He was just good enough to get out when it was right for him to do so!
Actually I still believe the best drivers came from the 60's
Moss, Hill, Stewart, Clark, McLaren, Brabham, Rindt
The car control and ability to actually drive without aids, wings, aero, sticky tyres etc. relying on car feel, control and smoothness would win for me.
that said from the to to choose from Schuey gets my vote for being consistently quick and he would drive untill it broke - remember the race when he drove half of it in a single gear? Most others spit the dummy and retire
Ian
They had a running 'competition' on TV in the '80's / '90's to ascertain who drove the most efficient (shortest) line around any given track.
Prost was unquestionably the champion at every track he raced at, hence his nickname - the Professor. Other aspects of his nature were not so accomplished... :shifty:
Prost was unquestionably the champion at every track he raced at, hence his nickname - the Professor. Other aspects of his nature were not so accomplished... :shifty:
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
For a one off match race for all the glory? Senna, without doubt.
They gave their opinion. Is that not enough?
PS Your poll of poles does not indicate, given equal machinery, which one would be faster. It merely offers statistics from their own time - to be valid in supporting your choice of protagonist, you would have to factor in differences in tracks, car, weather. Clearly, as your poll of poles indicates they were NOT in the same car.
The question was, given equal machinery and pitted against each other in a shootout at the top of their profession which one would be faster?
I do wish you wouldn't treat us as naughty schoolboys.
PS Your poll of poles does not indicate, given equal machinery, which one would be faster. It merely offers statistics from their own time - to be valid in supporting your choice of protagonist, you would have to factor in differences in tracks, car, weather. Clearly, as your poll of poles indicates they were NOT in the same car.
The question was, given equal machinery and pitted against each other in a shootout at the top of their profession which one would be faster?
I do wish you wouldn't treat us as naughty schoolboys.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Keith,
I was mearly stating why Senna was my choice.
The question was not who was/is the best racer, the question was who was fastest over one lap, kind of like qualifying.
In the same car on the same day with the same weather....................
Senna out performed four time Champion Prost in poles 26 to 4<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
Now Keith had the question been who was the best racer, who had the best race craft, I might well pick Shumacher or Prost. But that was not the question.
Keep in mind that Senna spent time in Toleman and Slow Lotus teams and still got the pole in 40.37% of the GPs he entered!
I was mearly stating why Senna was my choice.
The question was not who was/is the best racer, the question was who was fastest over one lap, kind of like qualifying.
In the same car on the same day with the same weather....................
Senna out performed four time Champion Prost in poles 26 to 4<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
Now Keith had the question been who was the best racer, who had the best race craft, I might well pick Shumacher or Prost. But that was not the question.
Keep in mind that Senna spent time in Toleman and Slow Lotus teams and still got the pole in 40.37% of the GPs he entered!
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Shumacher made plenty of unforced errors on the track too. Less than most for sure, but he was also subject to lapses in concentration resulting in plenty of off-track excursions.
Shumacher also had the best car and team out there backing him up....by far. Senna had some good teams and cars, and some not-so-good teams and cars...in the final analysis this factored into the consistency of his performance.
But the comments about Senna being the maestro and Shumacher being the machine are pretty much right on.
In the wet I'd take Senna any day over anyone who has ever raced in F1 (and maybe ever will). The way he could keep an F1 car on the absolute limit 100% of the time in the wet was pure genius. But that kind of passion and determination comes at a price, and he paid the ultimate price at Imola. There's a reason why Prost survived his years in F1.
Shumacher also had the best car and team out there backing him up....by far. Senna had some good teams and cars, and some not-so-good teams and cars...in the final analysis this factored into the consistency of his performance.
But the comments about Senna being the maestro and Shumacher being the machine are pretty much right on.
In the wet I'd take Senna any day over anyone who has ever raced in F1 (and maybe ever will). The way he could keep an F1 car on the absolute limit 100% of the time in the wet was pure genius. But that kind of passion and determination comes at a price, and he paid the ultimate price at Imola. There's a reason why Prost survived his years in F1.
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Yes Jim I get it. But Prost was not part of the question, so any comparison is meaningless. Getting 40% of poles is also meaningless regarding the key question except that he proves he was a one lap specialist.
Lotus slow? Oh dear.
My opinion is based on my direct observations of them both driving in various European races, Senna with Toleman Lotus and McLaren and Schumacher with Benetton & Ferrari.
By the way, my favourite story of Senna is him being stopped at 150 mph or something on the M40 on his way to Silverstone. The cop said "who do you think your are, Nigel Mansell" to which he obviously replied, "no, I am Ayrton Senna" .The cop thinking this guy is making a joke, wrote the ticket immediately. I am fairly sure he got banned in the UK for a few months as a result.
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
One lap qualifying
That would have to be Ricardo Patrese (sp)
Ian
That would have to be Ricardo Patrese (sp)
Ian
The question in on the merit of who you think can post the fastest lap time in equal cars. You can even qualify the answer on the basis of it was a certain type of car or type of weather or circuit whatever. For example someone mentioned Senna in the rain, and I agree no one touches Senna in the wet. Not necessarily who wins a season championship or likely who is the most likely to go over aggressive and not finish the race. Comments about other drivers are interesting and can be added if you believe they would be quicker.
Theon
Theon