SPF Mark 1 Cooling System Question

Finally getting to the end of my much prolonged install.

I have plumbed the major coolant lines, but have a question about my one remaining line (and a T-fitting supplied by SPF).

My remaining line (5/8th in), I assume is a return from the heater core. I'm thinking that this should attach to one of the smaller inlets on the water pump, while using the T-fitting to also connect to the bung at the base of the overflow tank ( while the other smaller waterpump inlet is used as a bypass at the T-stat neck). The two smallest lines from the radiator and top of the T-stat fitting are venting to the top of the overflow tank.

Does this sound right?

PS, surprising myself, I was able to get everything hooked up using just the SPF-supplied hoses and fittings after cutting down one of the larger "elbows". They supplied me two sets of all the big hoses...not sure why, probably just to confuse me.....not used to working on cars with water cooling.
 
Ron,

I cannot comment on the return line but I can offer a bit of advise I got from Olthoff. They recommend putting a valve in-line with the supply to the heater core so that in the summer (with the valve closed) no hot water gets to the heater core. Apparently the servos are not very strong and hot water can get through the valves, this then forces the AC to work harder or it simply doesn't keep up. In the winter I then open the valve so I can get heat.

Sorry I don't have the answer for you, that said, my car was plumed incorrectly during the install forcing water into the heater core out line, that ended up requiring a new heater core.

Kevin
 
Kevin,

I like the valve idea...I'll probably look for one today.

I would also like to avoid buying a new heater core, so thanks for the warning.
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
....Does this sound right?

Ron --
In case you don't already have it, following is the semi-official SPF cooling system diagram (semi because it was done by one of the dealers).

Cooling%20System%20Diag1.JPG

What it calls for is your 5/8" line from the tunnel to go to the top of the intake manifold, and the bung at the bottom of the tank (point A) to go to a water pump inlet port (i.e. on the body of the pump).

The thermostat bleed is shown going to the small bleed spigot on the bottom of the tank (point B) and the radiator bleed going to the small spigot 3/4 of the way up the side of the tank (point C).

The small spigot on the tank collar (point D) goes to the overflow line dumping on the ground.

I don't know what the metal Tee would be for (but then my install is a big block so I used few of the kit parts anyway). Maybe someone with an Olthoff-installed windsor can suggest its purpose. Or maybe Lynn Miner's docs show it in use.
 
Last edited:


Alan, thanks for taking the time to post the image, I've pretty much based my cooling system on it.

My confusion arises because my setup is a bit different than the diagram. I'm running webers, so the intake may be the variation.

In anycase, I have one free fitting on the top of the intake (brass colored) that I was going to use for the water temp sender. As you can see, there is a bipass running from the T-stat housing to one of the smaller waterpump inlets, with a second inlet still available (currently capped).

I realize that I need to draw fluid from the overflow tank back into the waterpump, and I suppose I could just use the available (capped) fitting.

But then, what to do with that 5/8th hose (presumed heater)....is it supply or return?

Should I remove the bipass line from the T-stat housing and attach it there, providing a relative positive pressure, or should it be attached to the waterpump inlet, providing a vacuum?

This is the conundrum I'm currently fiaxating on.

I suppose anyone with an Olthoff-instaled motor running webers would know right off, but I don't doubt that there are others than have a similar setup and/or more experience than I, who could answer this question.

Anyone know for sure?
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the tip on a shut off valve for the heater line. I had that on my Lotus Europa, but never thought how that might help the SPF too. I didn't use the T chrome plated fitting with my Roush Windsor 427SR install.
 
Ron,

You're definitely on the right track. The supplied diagram is an excellent guide, and you should simply follow it. Although the GT40 differs in detail and is much more complex than a Mustang, at the end of the day, a Ford is a Ford. There's a Gozinta and a Gozouta, and you just need to make sure you hook up the right hoses to their appropriate fittings.

In answer to some of your specific questions....

Weber intake manifolds follow the same design philosophy as standard carburetor intakes, with some detail differences. Aftermarket intakes have a single water outlet to the radiator, equipped with a conventional thermostat, while the original GT40 intake used a pair of smaller outlets. A special Y-shaped pipe joined the two small outlets into a single, larger pipe, and a thermostat would then have to be fitted inside of another fixture downstream of that (the originals didn't appear to have any sort of thermostat, if the parts book diagram is accurate).

Water outlet to the heater, on the original cars, came from a fitting attached to the aforementioned Y-shaped pipe at the front of the motor; water inlet from the heater to the water pump was achieved by a fitting on the pipe which connected to the water pump inlet. Both were in the engine bay. (The SPF setup follows the same design philosophy, but relocates the inlet to the water pump--instead of being right next to the pump, it's located in the pipe leading to the radiator, so the fluid is sucked from the heater, then through the radiator, then back to the water pump).

Assuming your Weber intake is one of the aftermarket types that use a standard single water outlet with a thermostat, you should plumb your car the way the Mustang is set up (and the way the SPF diagram above indicates). Water outlet to the heater is achieved via the port on the top of the intake near the thermostat housing; a dedicated fitting goes here, available cheaply from all Mustang parts sources. Here's one:

00265sm.jpg


You can get it here:

Mustang Parts from Mustangs Plus :: Heater & Defroster :: Heater Elbow :: 1966-70 Mustang 289/302 Heater Elbow

Although every Mustang parts shop in the world carries them.

That goes forward to supply the heater core. The outlet from the heater core (according to the SPF diagram) goes into the pipe which feeds the radiator. Then the 5/8 inch hose on the bottom of the expansion tank leads back to one of the two smaller inlets on the water pump (the other is capped off).

In short, follow the diagram above and you can't go wrong. If you want to be super-duper authentic, you could follow the original GT40 plumbing scheme, which can be seen here:

GT40CoolingSystem.jpg


Note the electrical switch, part #32 in the diagram above. I *think* that is the temp sender for the water temp gauge, although the parts book describes it as a 'temp control'. I don't see how that switch would control anything, unless...wait a minute, no, that's probably the switch to turn the radiator fan on and off thermostatically. Does anybody know for sure?

You'd want your water temp gauge to be reading from the engine, not the radiator outlet anyway. You don't care how hot your radiator is, all you care about is how hot your engine is....

Oh, and by the way, if you're going to install a manual heater shutoff valve, make SURE that you install it in the supply line TO the heater. I had one installed in my GT350, and made the mistake of putting it on the outlet side of the heater. It worked just as well, from the standpoint of preventing any flow through the heater. But one day I was running the car on a chassis dyno with the valve closed, and saw water dripping onto the carpet--at high RPM, the pressure was extreme, and the heater core was practically bulging under the strain. Not good! I replumbed it that very day.

More than one Pantera has been wrecked because of a burst heater hose in the cabin--it always happens when the RPM is high and the testosterone is too. When a heater hose (or core) lets go inside a small cockpit like a Pantera or GT40, the result is that superheated water sprays all over the occupant's legs, burning them severely, and the windows all instantly go completely opaque, so you can't see where you're going. A split-second later--BAM! And you're into a wall or tree or another car.

So heater hose shutoff valves are a very good idea; when Panteras run on track events, we require two of them, on the inlet AND the outlet side. Mechanically there is no reason why a single valve on the inlet side (to the heater) wouldn't suffice, but it's difficult for tech inspectors to tell at a glance that the valve has been installed in the correct line; putting them in both lines is a belt-and-suspenders solution that makes the tech inspector's life easier at the same time.

And remember that hoses don't last forever; plan on changing your heater hoses, at least, every 10 years or so....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mike, et al,

I'll have to take a look at my block/intake when I get home, but it would seem to me that the obvious location for the temp sender is the brass fitting on the intake. I'm not sure how the water temp or pressure would be much different there from that coming out of the fitting on the T-stat housing.

That said, am I correct in assuming that the 5/8 hose that I'm figuring out what to do with is likely the "supply" line for the heater core? If so, then I don't see any reason not to use the fitting on the T-stat housing as a supply source. Would it not be the equal of the "heater hose manifold" in the first diagram, and be essentially the same as the more downstream fitting used on the original cars in the second diagram (which I think I've seen in the SAAC Registry).

Finally, assuming all of my assumptions are correct, maybe a big assumption, I think I should just disconnect the "bipass" going from my T-stat housing to the small waterpump intake (see my photo), place the heater line on the T-stat housing, and run another line from the overflow tank to the small waterpump inlet fiting. And then just stick the temp sender on the brass fitting.

As long as the one hose I have left over is the "supply" for the heater, I think I should be good to go.

Anyone know any different?

PS. I've checked with Jegs and Summit for valves (I'll get two), but haven't had any luck. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, can someone chime in?

Thanks, Ron
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
PS. I've checked with Jegs and Summit for valves (I'll get two), but haven't had any luck. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, can someone chime in?

McMaster-Carr has lots and lots of suitable valves, eg McMaster-Carr

although I'm using one that I think I got at home depot. Just a ball valve with NPT female thread on each end, and a couple hose barb fittings of the right size for your hose and the NPT threads to match the valve. It just has to survive boiling hot water, which is not a tall order.

Speaking of Home Depot, they even show a suitable one on their web site (which almost never happens for me) that has barbs built-in:

3/4 in. Brass Barb Lead Free Ball Valve-22462LF at The Home Depot

BTW speaking of hose size, I seem to recall when I was putting together that part of the car discovering that the hard lines and spigots are actually 3/4", and that SPF had supplied 5/8" hose which is nice if you want to make damn sure that hoses never comes off, but makes it hard to work on, and I'm all for "maintenance friendly". So I replaced those with 3/4" hose where appropriate.
 
Last edited:

Jack Houpe

GT40s Supporter
I have the same anti freeze in my car since I installed the engine in 2008 and never added any, it has never gotten hot even in 100+ degree stop and go traffic and racing 120 mph for 30 minutes straight. There is no block thermostat and no bypass between the water pump and the other side of the block thermostat as I use a bypass thermostat in the front of the car. Also I plumbed the suction side of my water pump to the bottom of the radiator not the top like SPF has recommended. The electric fans on the radiator are controlled from the block temperature not the radiator. Not to say the other way is wrong, just this way has been proven over and over again in European cars to be the best way of cooling. I know this will stir the pot but the proof is in the pudding.
 
OK,

So I think that I may be able to bring this thread to a close. Thanks to those of you who have contributed...especially like the idea of putting in valves to stop flow to the heater core during the summer and track events. I'm now just looking around to try to find some valves that look a little less "agricultural."

McMaster-Carr...can't believe that I haven't used them before.



I did a little further investigation last night. Turns out that the fitting on the T-stat neck bipasses the T-stat, and is continuous to the same space occupied by the brass fitting on top of the intake...now loosely holding my water temp sender. I'll use the fitting on the T-stat to supply my heater core.

I'll also cut off the extra 5/8th hose, and use it to run a line from the bottom of the overflow tank to the waterpump. That should complete my dealings with the cooling system.

Yeh.

Also sorted the ignition wiring last night...mostly. Wires are labled, zip-tied, and ready to go. MSD is set to 6800 rev limit. Will have to get a fitting to put the oil temp sender in the pan. Getting close.
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
McMaster-Carr...can't believe that I haven't used them before.
.

Not only that, but they have one of the best web sites for searching and narrowing down choices; they're actually in the web design history books for that.

Also, I live near San Diego, and 95% of the time my orders come from the LA warehouse. It's not unusual to order one morning and have it on my doorstep the next afternoon. And, I have *never* gotten a response other than "will ship in the morning". As far as I can tell, they stock everything.
 
OK guy's this looks like the right place to ask this question. While I was driving to LA from Northern Idaho any place that the outside temp was below 40F say like 15F at the start of my trip the engine temp would sit at 50C. Not even warm enough for the heater to work. I finally covered about half of the radiator and the temp came up to it's normal 90C. It has a 180F thermostat in the normal spot. Any ideas?
 
OK,



I did a little further investigation last night. Turns out that the fitting on the T-stat neck bipasses the T-stat, and is continuous to the same space occupied by the brass fitting on top of the intake...now loosely holding my water temp sender. I'll use the fitting on the T-stat to supply my heater core.

If i understood correctly you want to use the Tstat bypass for supplying your heater core.
If this is the case, please rethink this idea. The Tstat bypass is needed for bypassing your cooler as long the Tstat is closed. If you run this to your heater and your heater valve is closed, you will have no circulation in your water system as long the Tstat is closed. This will increase the likeliness of developing local steam pockets in your engine.

TOM
 
Tom,

Interesting point. It occurs to me that if the heater valves actually work, you could be right.

Hmm.

Frankly, I've considered capping the lines to the heater completely...not much need here. Would probably be better to keep as much heat out of the cabin as possible. And, I wouldn't have to worry about a line coming loose or the core springing a leak while on the track.
 
ROn you already had the solution in your first post.

Use the T installing it in the feedline coming from the expansion tank to the waterpump. T in your heater return line there. in this line place the ball valve wherever it is convinient. Also put in a second ball valve in the heater supply line ( feed coming upfront from the inlet side of the radiator.

In normal use , have one of this ball valves wide open and use the other one via a remote control ( pull push cable) to regulate heater flowrate ( and with that temperature).

Running without an heater is no fun. On a day with high moisture in the air you would defenitely have issues to defog your windscreen without an heater.

TOM
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
OK guy's this looks like the right place to ask this question. While I was driving to LA from Northern Idaho any place that the outside temp was below 40F say like 15F at the start of my trip the engine temp would sit at 50C. Not even warm enough for the heater to work. I finally covered about half of the radiator and the temp came up to it's normal 90C. It has a 180F thermostat in the normal spot. Any ideas?


I'd guess your thermostat is stuck wide open.

Ian
 
Running without an heater is no fun. On a day with high moisture in the air you would defenitely have issues to defog your windscreen without an heater.

TOM

Fortunately, Sacramento California is essentially a desert. Not usually that humid, and definitely not cool in the summer.

As for demisting the windscreen....most of my cars have been early Porsches with their pathetic excuses for ventilation systems. I've become very skilled at driving with one hand while wiping the windows with the other.:laugh:

As for heat, the reality is that I would probably almost never need it. I'm not sure how the water would flow, if it matters, if I insert the T-fitting between the T-stat bipass, heater supply line and small water pump intake. I can't believe that there isn't a simple way to hook all of this up without check valves, etc.
 
As for heat, the reality is that I would probably almost never need it. I'm not sure how the water would flow, if it matters, if I insert the T-fitting between the T-stat bipass, heater supply line and small water pump intake. I can't believe that there isn't a simple way to hook all of this up without check valves, etc.

It will flow from your high pressure side from the radiator to the low pressure side of the pump, The small inlet on the pump is on the "Suction" side.

TOM
 
Back
Top