SPF v. CAV

[Pat]

I would be surprised if any two original GT40s are exactly alike and after having my CAV now for over 5 years, I promise there is not another CAV that is like mine. That's the fun of our hobby, I have Ian's front suspension, a modified interior (I think LED lights are cool so I have uber courtesy and map lights)plus other mods from local race shops and my engine is definitely "eclectic" - it has somewhat of a drag racer's DNA. It is absolutely fantastic to drive and it has worn the miles quite well. I also have enjoyed the support of Lana and Jean at the factory who really have gone out of their way to help. Given the choice I'd buy another CAV but I would hope that whatever any of us may own, we're enjoying it so much we'd buy the same thing again- unless it has a Chevy engine it.

 

[chuck smith]

I do not think one has better glass than the other. I do think my CAV has thicker glass and the rear clam is more sturdy than my SPF was. that could be a function of the MK11 vrs MK1. Now thicker glass means more weight, so again one is not better than the other. I think the shape is very similiar between the two. I have the wide body version of the MK1 and it sits perfect, but so do most MK1 SPF cars I have seen. here is mine.

 

[Mike Drew]

Can anyone speak to the differences in body makeup and shape? It would appear that the rear of the CAV (MKI) drops down further than the SPF (MKI).

I had never noticed that fact until I saw the CAV cars parked side-by-side with originals and SPF cars at Road America. You're right. On the original/SPF cars, the top of the rear spoiler is perhaps an inch or two higher than the high point of the front fender (with the car basically level). On the CAV cars, the rear droops noticeably and appears to be quite a bit lower than the original/SPF.

It's quite possible that the CAV fiberglass is thicker/stronger than the SPF fiberglass...I've never paid close attention.

 

[Gordo]

I have a CAV (2006 # 123) which in my estimation was a better build than the SPF. The SPF is closer to the original in terms of dimension and components – but the CAV has had some development to make it a better (daily?) driver. (IMHO) The glass in the CAV is very thick and very heavy. Single molded shell with the doors cut from “that” shell – so a perfect match. I’m happy with the build quality and the design improvements. Quite roomy inside. But – at the end of the day, it’s still a 1960’s mega muscle car with all the short comings of the era.


It really comes down to personal preference. Who do you want to date - they all have the same attributes - it's a matter of personality and upbringing!

 

[Kim Petersen]

John:

They're both great cars that can provide the enthusiast driver with an unbelievable driving experience for a fraction of the cost of the original. From what I've seen, the differences are small but significant.

The CAV has been designed with an open mind towards improvements and enhancements over the original GT40. And believe me there's lot's of room for improvement when it comes to comfort! For example, driving an original in the rain is best done with a wetsuit and a snorkel. You'll find that the CAV is a well-built replica that has lots of very happy owners.

On the other hand, if originality is important to you, then the Superformance is the way to go. It is bolt-for-bolt, panel-for-panel, the closest thing to the real car. Both the Superformance Mk I and Mk II bodies are splashed from original cars; the monocoque body is virtually identical to the real thing. And the Superformance comes with a true GT40 continuation chassis number and the right to call your car a 'GT40', since the Superformance is the only car licensed by Safir GT40 Spares, the trademark holders of the 'GT40' name. This also means that your Superformance is eligible for both the Shelby and the Safir GT40 registries along with the original cars. The Superformance GT40/R, the racing version of the road-going GT40, is so accurate to the original that it has been approved by HSR and SVRA to compete in historical racing.

So, depending on what is most important to you, either car is a blast to drive and great to look at.

Kim

 

[Kim Petersen]

John:

By the way, here are some photos of the first Superformance GT40/R Competition (P/2090) at the recent Road America GT40 reunion. In one photo you'll notice Brian Redman admiring the car; moments before David Hobbs was crawling out of the driver's seat. Very cool stuff!

Kim

 

I do not think one has better glass than the other. I do think my CAV has thicker glass and the rear clam is more sturdy than my SPF was. that could be a function of the MK11 vrs MK1. QUOTE]

It is the difference between the MKII and the MKI. The MKI is much sturdier.

Brian

 

[Johan]

John:

By the way, here are some photos of the first Superformance GT40/R Competition (P/2090) at the recent Road America GT40 reunion. In one photo you'll notice Brian Redman admiring the car; moments before David Hobbs was crawling out of the driver's seat. Very cool stuff!

Kim

How come that car was not racing at Road America? If that is what you get for $112,000 it seems like a pretty good deal If you want to race.

 

[Tim Kay]

How come that car was not racing at Road America? ...........

My understanding from Dennis Olthoff was the 'R' barely got finished in time for presentation at RA and needed more work to make if race ready. Dennis was racing his personal red MkII.

 

[Kim Petersen]

How come that car was not racing at Road America? If that is what you get for $112,000 it seems like a pretty good deal If you want to race.

Johan:

Unfortunately, we only received the roller three days before the Road America event began. Dennis Olthoff & Co. did a fantastic job installing the Holman Moody engine and the ZFQ transmission before it was put on a truck headed north.

We look forward to sorting it out over the next couple of weeks and racing it in earnest at several HSR and SVRA events this year. Our big debut race is going to be Watkins Glen this September!

Kim

 

[Rod]

I had never noticed that fact until I saw the CAV cars parked side-by-side with originals and SPF cars at Road America. You're right. On the original/SPF cars, the top of the rear spoiler is perhaps an inch or two higher than the high point of the front fender (with the car basically level). On the CAV cars, the rear droops noticeably and appears to be quite a bit lower than the original/SPF.

I just wanted to make sure that I'm looking at it properly. If you look at the rear end pic of 2090 that Kim posted above, the SPF rear clamshell "flattens out" as it moves rearward, as compared to the rear clamshell of the CAV. Scroll down to the chart showing the outline of the CAV here:

Specifications

Would anyone be able to post a side-by-side comparison of the each car's profile?

 

[Garry]

Rod,
My reasearch has shown that there are indeed differences in the rear clamshell on GT40's...that includes the origionals as well. If you look at pictures in the gallery, you will notice that the origional "narrow tail-twin tailight" version is different than the later single light version. Also note the rear wheel wells, some of them have a round contour and some of them are eliptical...more oval in shape and cover the top of the tire more in side profile. Very confusing since I have seen two origionals..P1043 &P1046...both narrow-tail twin-lights..and they have different wheel well openings, however the rest of the clamshell appears identical to the eye.


The early single light narrow tail bodies are almost the same as the twin-light versions, but changes show up later. By the way, RCR has the most perfect narrow-tail single tail light version in the market to my eye, but that is because they have an eliptical wheel opening which looks more origional to me...however, that's just my opinion. SPF does a great version of the MKII, very accurate and virtually identical to Holman Moody's MKII which is produced from their origional molds and diagrams form 1966.
In short, you will have to decide which look floats your boat and make come decisions. IMHO, that is the hard part. Do you want to replicate the MKI Road Coupe, Sports Coupe (street version), one of the racers such as the Gulf cars (wider rear body work..eliptical rear wheel weels, single nostril) or one of the MKII versions. Choices, choices! Keep in mind that there were only a small number of cars ever produced and running changes were occuring all of the time..trying to improve their winning percentage.
I am going thru the same decisions as to which manufactuer is the wayto go for me. I also have the problem of size sice I am 6'2" and 230lbs. You too will have to decide how you want to use your car and what fits you and your significant other's idea of fun.
Garry

 

[Jim Craik]

From what I can tell, these are both great cars and really capture the feel of the original.

Unless you see them side by side it is almost impossible to tell the differance.

When seen side by side the roof line of the CAV has been altered and appears to be raised at the rear fire wall (for more headroom). On the originals and SPF cars the roof line is almost straight from just behind the windshield to the start if the spoiler with the top of the door window slanting down subtantially toward the rear. The CAV has a noticable "bend" in the roof line.

Additionally as noted before the rear spoiler on the CAV appears to be somewhat lower than the original and SPF.

I have also noted another small differance at the top, rear of the door window there is a continuation of a body crease that continues to mold into the upper rear scoop on the MK1.

But as I noted above, unless seen side by side these differances probably will not be seen.

 

[Jimmy P]

This has been a fascinating topic which I think we knew it would be. Incidently has John chimed in since starting the thread? The philosphy's of each company may come into play also. Was it SPF's position to remain faithful to originality and produce the most original car to enthusiasts.....and possibly CAV's idea was to build a car that was very close to original but to sell cars to as many people as possible recognizing changes had to be made to accomodate those of us who may not be of an average F1 driver size. If its a street car you want then comfort has to come into the equation and to some extent racing too has its level of comfort. CAV lowered the floor pan in its 100+ serial numbered cars for this reason. There is more interior room in the CAV car then the SPF. I drive mine mainly on the street so comfort was a priority. I'm sure the SPF is a comfortable car also but if you are above average in height, weight and er, girth then your decision might me made for you.

 

[Mike Drew]

I'm sure the SPF is a comfortable car also but if you are above average in height, weight and er, girth then your decision might me made for you.

Indeed. FWIW we measured the interior width of the SPF cabin last week. The LHD cars chassis are built as a mirror-image to the originals, with the central tunnel offset to the right. This was done to accommodate "American-sized" drivers no doubt.

From the inside edge of the rocker panel to the inside edge of the center tunnel was about 19 inches on the left side, and 15 inches on the right side, so the passenger side is noticeably more cramped.

Note that on the RHD cars with right-hand rod shift, the shifter encroaches into the area that would normally be occupied by the seat. (The central tunnel is appropriately offset to the left). Although we didn't measure Mike's car, we did look at the seats, and it appeared to have two 'passenger' seats installed, which would indicate that both sides are 15 inches wide, with the shift linkage housing consuming the remaining four-ish inches on the right side.

 

[Rod]

The SPF is a snug fit for me as well and I'm little under 6'0" and trim.

I think my eyes can detect visual differences in pics of each body, but then CAV did change the body around #100. I have a general feel of what floats my boat and I don't require dead nuts accuracy to the original. However, the first test for me is the appeal of the body lines and I'm attempting to see if others see the same things as me.

The rear clamshell and roof line of the CAV appear to have more curvature whereas the SPF has somewhat straighter lines in those areas and it sounds like others see those differences as well.

I do like the dual nostril/medium tail appearance and that generally seems to be what is produced by SPF. I'm not sure about CAV's. However, with the BDRGT's, BDR seems to favor the single nostril, and all of them have the wide tail. I'm aware you can order whatever nostril-type and tail you want from CAV or SPF.

I would like to hear more about the suspension and brakes of each brand and which may or may not be the most desirable.

Garry, While I haven't ruled the RCR out entirely, I would prefer a factory-built high quality turnkey minus, in the mold of my Kirkham. I get a lot of comfort out of the fact that there are about 150-200 +/- other cars out there (SPF & CAV) that are like mine. I gather that the RCR's are mainly for builders, though I'm aware that they could provide a turnkey minus via a separate vendor, and each builder builds-to-suit.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Rod,

Check out Tim Dutton's RCR build.

That is a factory built car.

So they remain an option.

 

[Ron Martel]

Garry,

It may be worth your while to check into ERA. Peter P. claims the guy who builds their 40s is 6'4" and weighs 230 and is able to drive them. Downside is they're more expensive and there's a 2-year waiting list.

 

[Rod]

Garry,

It may be worth your while to check into ERA. Peter P. claims the guy who builds their 40s is 6'4" and weighs 230 and is able to drive them. Downside is they're more expensive and there's a 2-year waiting list.

I heard it was a 2-3 year wait, and that's what removes the ERA from my consideration. Otherwise, a very high quality car with outstanding customer service.

 

[Garry]

I really like the ERA as well, probably my first choice if I could find a builder and the wait wasn't so damn long. They offer a lot of features in their cars that are exactly like the originals...moveable pedal box from the drivers seat, etc., and the body is very nice as well. They use a kevlar spider instead of steel, and that would be okay with me as well...but it is a long time to wait.
Garry