The Price of Transaxles - Why are Transaxles Expensive?

They can't all be great monoliths with their head stuck in the sand. There must be at least one who has studied it in depth in order to try and gain a competitive advantage and increased market share.
I don't know if I can agree. I think that the bigger they get the more unreasonable they get on this subject. When they get as big as Quaife or Getrag they are beyond reasonable economics.

Case in point, the company I work for (one of the largest in manufacturing ice and beverage dispensing equipment) has just stated the rules for profit on any equipment that we manufacture. We now need to make a minimum of 40% or the product is going to be canceled. They cannot be satisfied with even 39%. If the competition lowers their price we need to take enough cost out of ours to at least match at a 40%+ profit. This goes for new products as well. They need to be released at 40% or better or they will not release it period.

We are currently developing an ice cream dispenser (trying to get into a new market) and have units out for field test. The biggest competitor (who has been selling these for over 30 yrs and hasn't really changed anything during that time) saw it and dropped their price 20%. We are now trying to re-design our unit to take 20% of the cost out of it. Our machine is more efficient, easier to operate and much easier to clean. (considerably fewer parts and quicker time) The customers that have these in their stores for field test do not want to give them up. Taking this kind of money out of the machine may cause this machine to be unreliable. And if we cannot get the cost down they are going to scrap the project. They have already spent 1.5 million over the lase 2 years. All they need to sell is 700 units to pay for all of the design/development costs and it is projected that this should be less than one year of production. But they would rather not sell any than to sell below 40% profit.

So, someone determined that the cost of these transaxles was going to be $20,000 or whatever, and that is it. I would think that even if they were to develop a transaxle using parts from existing transmissions and rear axles they would still charge the same high price. But they will likely not do that because using these parts would mean they would not make the same profit on those parts than if they made the parts themselves.
 
The previous post is an exact example of what I was talking about. Admittedly they will not lower the $ if they do not make a certain percentage. That is just bad business period. Oh and notice how their competitor instantly lowered their price which is now having the company rethink their introduction to that market. Just because you own the company doesn't mean that you should be running it. This is a prime example of someone with their head up their [email protected]!!!!!!!!! I bet if he lowered his % he would sell more and gain more market share and $ from not only the sale of new machines but also the service contracts that go along with (most times straight profit). I just don't understand some people. Either way I am going to get off my soap box as I am now beating a dead horse.
 

Russ Noble

GT40s Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Our machine is more efficient, easier to operate and much easier to clean. (considerably fewer parts and quicker time) The customers that have these in their stores for field test do not want to give them up. Taking this kind of money out of the machine may cause this machine to be unreliable.
And therein lies the crux of the problem, the company is trying to compete on price rather than quality. If the customer buys on price without regard to the quality and presumably this is what your company fears is going to happen, the customer is living in a fools paradise. If people are not prepared to pay a slight premium for higher quality, is it any wonder there is such a massive upsurge in low quality, low cost, crap items coming into all our countries from offshore?

Nevertheless it is possible to source good quality product from these same offshore countries and it is also at very competitive prices. Most likely these companies use the methodology mentioned by Damian, and other efficiencies, to create their quality products at better prices.

All power to them, they will eventually replace the dinosaur companies, alluded to by Pete T and Damian, which will not change! Maybe we should be looking to these countries, China etc, as a future source of transaxles. I am sure they are capable, and no doubt eventually it will happen. Unless of course they crunch the numbers and find it to be an uneconomic proposition!

Nevertheless, there could be an entreprenurial offshore company at this very minute studying stripped down Porsche, ZF, Quaife, Ricardo, Cima, Hewland and other transaxles, diffs, and gearboxes, with a view to starting production. Who knows? If there is a void in the market, someone, somewhere, sometime, will attempt to fill it.....if it makes economic sense to do so.....
 
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Brian Kissel

Lifetime Supporter
His daughter refunded my deposit, shortly after his health issue. I have not heard anything from them since.

Regards Brian
 
Very friendly and kindly, my friend,
before spending such an ammount of air, try to build up the same business and talk concretely by mentionning facts and not thoughts.
Ciao
Wanni
 

Trevor Booth

Lifetime Supporter
The "economics 101 lesson" forgot one thing, plant maintenance tool replacement, machine replacement. These things dont last forever.

So what if Wanni designed a transaxle and got somebody to build it, I say good on him.
This is similar to what I do, I design things, people build them, I get rewarded for my efforts. Whichever way, the design, engineering and testing cost is a fundamental part of the cost and you dont design a transaxle in 5 minutes.

Engineering design is expensive, however, it is the key to a successful product.

You may think that using existing off the shelf components is a good and cheap thing and you may go ahead and build a transaxle- what do you do when it fails, what do you do when you find the case is not strong enough, let alone the harmonics in the gear train and how it can rapidly destroy a gear set.

Unless you have a large budget and access to a sound engineering resource it is a daunting task. Sure you may produce something that will work in a "fashion" the chances are its efficency rating will be well down and you will spend mega bucks on your engine to counter the inefficent gear train.

I designed and built my own 5 speed dog engagement gear box for a front engined racing car in 1968 and it is still going strong, however, I blew a heap of them up before I achieved success.

make your choice and pay the money

no one is rich enough to afford rubbish
 
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the "economics 101 lesson" forgot one thing, plant maintenance tool replacement, machine replacement. These things dont last forever.

So what if wanni designed a transaxle and got somebody to build it, i say good on him. and i have the rights for selling it worldwide
this is similar to what i do, i design things, people build them, i get rewarded for my efforts. Whichever way, the design, engineering and testing cost is a fundamental part of the cost and you dont design a transaxle in 5 minutes. exact, it takes about 3.000 hours

engineering design is expensive, however, it is the key to a successful product.

You may think that using existing off the shelf components is a good and cheap thing and you may go ahead and build a transaxle- what do you do when it fails, what do you do when you find the case is not strong enough, let alone the harmonics in the gear train and how it can rapidly destroy a gear set. any part off the shell is available. Even not the bearings and the oil.

unless you have a large budget and access to a sound engineering resource it is a daunting task. Sure you may produce something that will work in a "fashion" the chances are its efficency rating will be well down and you will spend mega bucks on your engine to counter the inefficent gear train. large or not, when the clients are in trouble, you shall solve the problem immediatly.

i designed and built my own 5 speed dog engagement gear box for a front engined racing car in 1968 and it is still going strong, however, i blew a heap of them up before i achieved success. everybody can build one prototype. To build hundreds and hundreds all the same and in the same level of quality is a different story.

make your choice and pay the money i am honourating all my troubles

no one is rich enough to afford rubbish
but some people are intelligent enough to install the product matching their needs. And believe that they are not stupid people just assembling rubbish. Those people are manufacturing similar and homologated cars.
do not offend and subvaluate persons who are honestly making their business. And remember....i am not selling to private persons even if they could afford my rubbish. Just to sleep quite and calm and dreaming all the night.

best regards

wanni (the rubbbishfox )
 

Trevor Booth

Lifetime Supporter
Wanni

""make your choice and pay the money""

meaning -- choose what you want to buy and pay the money


""no one is rich enough to afford rubbish""

meaning -- if you buy rubbish it not last and you have to buy again and again and again.

I am not saying your product is rubbish, I am saying that people think transaxle expensive because they dont know what work goes in to produce it. All they see is a box full of gears and think it simple that they can do it.
 
Transaxles will never be cheap because of the limited market. Wanni instead of trying to re invent the wheel why not take a proven design and modify it? The T56 box would be the box I would base a transaxle on. Look at the pic's below this is the drivetrain in my project. If I blow the gearbox up under $1000 for a new one same with the diff. I would get a Corvette box and diff send it to China and find someone who can design a transaxle using most of those parts.:lipsrsealed:
 

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So, suddenly profit is a dirty word in the USA and those engineering companies making highly specialised precision products for an extremely small and volatile market are just plain "greedy?"

Disengenuous statements at best and plain insulting at worst.

See post #18 this thread for an eloquent explanation of the risks involved in manufacturing for a niche market. Wanni needed to sell 500 units before turning a profit whilst investing considerable money.

Better still, all disatisfied potential transaxle owners send Jac Mac $100 to assist in the development of a suitable transaxle using off the shelf parts already available - that should get the eventual price down.

If you can't (won't) afford whats available in the meantime, perhaps your cash might be better invested in a model train set.
What a brilliant idea, doubt $100.00 would cut it tho & violate most forum rules in the process...

& dont get excited yet, just on daughters PC for afternoon..

Bottom line, why are transaxles so expensive, mainly to the number of snouts in the feed trough, a situation I am taking careful steps to avoid.... patience to some is a virtue, to me a part of life...
 

Randy V

Admin
Lifetime Supporter
What a brilliant idea, doubt $100.00 would cut it tho & violate most forum rules in the process...

& dont get excited yet, just on daughters PC for afternoon..

Bottom line, why are transaxles so expensive, mainly to the number of snouts in the feed trough, a situation I am taking careful steps to avoid.... patience to some is a virtue, to me a part of life...
He's BACK!!!!

I was just about to ship you another PC just to get you online!!! :)

Good to read you Jac! :thumbsup:

Okay - back to the thread...
 
Jac Mac could you do something with the Corvette drivetrain????
Aussies and Kiwi's can build some pretty good one off's, anyone up to the challenge?

I just watch the guy next door to get idea's, www.aussieinvader.com
 
wanni ma tu fai anche le revisioni degli autobloccanti?ne ho uno da sfascio per BMW ma non mi fido a montarlo perchè non ho idea di come sia conciato dentro..

international:
Wanni do u refurbish also LSD? I have one for BMW but dont dare to use it cause I really dunno its internal conditions
 
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no doubt new tranaxle is very expensive, but why bother to get a new when a used one can work? here in China, with less Auto atmospere, a cracked Audi 100 is pretty inexpensive, I saw one in the auto service station, and it only cost few hundred USD to get the cracked car back. with a good engine and a tranny. plus some other useless parts. it is crashed pretty bad. but I looked at the engine and tranny, the are in their position well. so I think it will work very good. also, a used tranny from th market is not that expensive either. only Lambo and Farries uses Wanni's new/strong box. and he has the reasons to be expensive.
some guys put up that to produce the parts in China and then ship them back to west for assembly, but I do not know if you can find the right guy for machining the parts, I am in China, and I am less confident that you can get the good material and machine shop to do the very precies work.
any way good discussion though. very brain storm!
But if I will start my project, I will get a crashed or second hand Audi 100 or just a used tranny to make the mid engine sports car. Hongkon has everything there, just spent some to have some body get it for you, same as your guys in US, you can get very good parts with amazingly cheap price.
 
I am very interesting if a Toyota 1 UZ 4.0L V8 can match with a 016 or any other good sourced 6 speed Audi box (I mean easy to get and less expensive, I can not afford a million for a 6 speed tranny), do you think they can work well?
the max torque for 1UZ is about 390NM? do you think 016 can handle that? I am not a crazy driver, I just love cars, I do not do 0 to 60 at whatever seconds it is, but I can not promiss I will not weld my right foot to the floor and get some fun out of it. what if the engine kills the box with it high torque? do you think they will work well?
Here is a lot of guys who are farmiliar with this thing, I hope I can get some of your replys. thanks. good luck.
if there is some data, can you please so kindly to send to my mail: [email protected]. thanks again.
 
I have a 1UZFE matched to an Audi 012, it's not been run yet, but the 012 should be strong enough from the specs. The 016 is said to be stronger so I think you will be ok with that.

An adapter kit to join the engine and trans will cost about the same as the engine, so it might be better to source an Audi V8 if possible and I'm sure I've seen plenty of those in China.
 
yes, there is a lot of Audi in China, but I do not think will be easy to find, as they are still new and alive on the road. hard to get a crashed running engine there. but a 1UZ can be easily find with some thousand dollars. here is some guys who modify off roaders on the 1UZ and builds the bellhousing and kits for 1UZ to match various pick ups and SUVS.
 
Jac Mac could you do something with the Corvette drivetrain????
Aussies and Kiwi's can build some pretty good one off's, anyone up to the challenge?

, www.aussieinvader.com
I could, but I wouldnt in my own case, my needs-wants are for a T/Axle that looks & has similar strength factors to the T44 as used in the Mk2 & MkIV cars ( hopefully better than some of the early units ).

Now if I wanted a ZF type replica the Vette stuff would warrant consideration, but I have already looked into that & could build a ZF clone using more conventional parts if I ever need one- but why bother, ZFQ & ZF already fit that niche & reasonably priced are they not?:)
 
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