Twin turbos anybody?

[Damian]

Alex a billet block is only 6,000 at the max that I have found . Then there was the video of the junk yard motors pushing close to the target # and that was a 4.7. so it is VERY POSSIBLE AND HAS BEEN DONE. You are on LS1 tech ask skinnies how much he had in his motor when he broke 1000hp. It is no longer rocket science. Here is just ONE kit that I spoke of ModularTurbo.com : Welcome! . Kentucky turbo products also offers another kit. Fill with what ever internals you like turn up the boost and have fun. I know you like to blow $ but some of us look to save every penni. http://www.norotors.com/index.php?P...bd83a11357f45e&topic=7879.msg110643#msg110643 The ONLY reason to ray that # is to be able to say that Jeff built it instead of your local guy. THE ONLY REASON!!!!! Guys I'm not bashing Jeff in any way just saying that his prices are a bit much. Also alex if you open up a corp for as few hundred you would be suprised with the discounts (on average of 15%) they companies will readily give you. We have gone over this in old threads and I don't want to hijack this anymore SORRY O.P.

 

[Brian Kissel]

A billet Katech is $10500.00

http://store.katechengines.com/billet-500ci-ls-block-p201.aspx

A billet LSM starts at $6000.00 I priced a big block from them and the block was $10500.00 plus options.

LSM Systems Engineering | Billet blocks

A billet Moran block starts at $10000.00

https://www.moranmotorsports.com/product/mre-custom-billet-aluminum-engine-block

A Dart billet block from Nelson (which are sold out), start at $8000.00, A CN block by Nelson starts at $7800.00 A BBC from them starts at $9000.00. All plus options

Engine Blocks Billet Aluminum : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce


Brian

 

[Jim Cowden]

Alex a billet block is only 6,000 at the max that I have found . Then there was the video of the junk yard motors pushing close to the target # and that was a 4.7. so it is VERY POSSIBLE AND HAS BEEN DONE. You are on LS1 tech ask skinnies how much he had in his motor when he broke 1000hp. It is no longer rocket science. Here is just ONE kit that I spoke of ModularTurbo.com : Welcome! . Kentucky turbo products also offers another kit. Fill with what ever internals you like turn up the boost and have fun. I know you like to blow $ but some of us look to save every penni. http://www.norotors.com/index.php?P...bd83a11357f45e&topic=7879.msg110643#msg110643 The ONLY reason to ray that # is to be able to say that Jeff built it instead of your local guy. THE ONLY REASON!!!!! Guys I'm not bashing Jeff in any way just saying that his prices are a bit much. Also alex if you open up a corp for as few hundred you would be suprised with the discounts (on average of 15%) they companies will readily give you. We have gone over this in old threads and I don't want to hijack this anymore SORRY O.P.

I used to do this work for a living, Everything is handmade and extremely time consuming if you want the look and the fit.
you seem to be adding up parts prices but unless you have done this type of work you would be surprised at how long it takes.
Hours go by working out issues, I did a turbo job on an M3 it was complex due to space ,I recon 10-12hrs of working out issues went into that job and it had a total of aprox 100hrs of fabrication
You will get quicker but you never end up with the same job twice how many SLC twin turbos will he sell 2-3 maybe 4.
You are giving prices on kits and using that as a comparison, those kits are R&D'd ,tolling made then a level of mass producing that is what a kit is all about, multiple sales and reducing the cost.
A apples for apples comparison would be to ask how long the original kit cost to conceive because that is what a one of is.
Hence the price

I think its realistic and that is coming from experience.

Jim

 

[Ben Whittle]

A billet Katech is $10500.00

http://store.katechengines.com/billet-500ci-ls-block-p201.aspx

A billet LSM starts at $6000.00 I priced a big block from them and the block was $10500.00 plus options.

LSM Systems Engineering | Billet blocks

A billet Moran block starts at $10000.00

https://www.moranmotorsports.com/product/mre-custom-billet-aluminum-engine-block

A Dart billet block from Nelson (which are sold out), start at $8000.00, A CN block by Nelson starts at $7800.00 A BBC from them starts at $9000.00. All plus options

Engine Blocks Billet Aluminum : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce


Brian

RHS block:

RHS LS-Series Aluminum Race Blocks - JEGS

Sure it's not a 'true' cost but if we're just comparing the price of bastard hard engine blocks...

 

[Brian Kissel]

RHS makes a very nice block also, but it is a cast block. There is a incrediable amount of machine time in a billet block. Thus dictating their big bucks.

Regards Brian

 

[Mesa]

I used to do this work for a living, Everything is handmade and extremely time consuming if you want the look and the fit.
you seem to be adding up parts prices but unless you have done this type of work you would be surprised at how long it takes.

Jim

Amen,

It's really easy to just add up the part prices and say "SEE"! But it's apples and oranges for the most part. The hours and hours of scratch fabwork, the R+D, the problem solving if something does not quite work right. And then there is the level of fit and finish. Let's just say it can cost 10 times the time to do the same functional job depending on how close to perfection you want it to look. Quick and cheap generally looks that way compared to slow and expensive.

And let's not forget to pay yourself for your time, hell just use your loaded per hour compensation for the day job you have. Add the money for the personal hours in your build at that rate and see what you come up with.

I bet it's not so far apart is it?

The comparison assumes one has the time, the equipment, the skills and the space to build this system. None of which are cheap.

Disclaimer - I am not a customer for a 40K engine nor do I have the particular skill set to fabricate the suggested system to a finish level that I would want in my own car. Sad, I know.

 

[Damian]

I NOT just adding up parts which when done still in no way justifies 40K no matter how you justify it. Guys down here there are PLENTY and I mean PLENTY of 1000WHP (NOT FWHP) cars running around here and NOT ONE HAS ANY WHERE NEAR THAT COST IN THE WHOLE CAR!!!!!! CFT was going to build me an LS1 1000whp twin motor ALL IN FOR 25K and they had at one point (and still might) held many a regional championship and record although mostly known in the import crowd. Lets just say that I have personally been an a HP mustang and a 1000 FWHP evo that they built and I can tell you from first hand experience that Jeff has NOTHING on these guys. Believe it or not the only mitigating factor is where you get your block so a few grand here a few grand there and you still get NO WHERE NEAR 40K for a build especially once you factor in discounts. Again you are paying for name only in this instance unless you fell that Jeff is worth 15K to put your motor together for you and well I'd rather spend the $ elsewhere (lets not forget that his 40K quote was for an IRON BLOCK NOT BILLET). This is turning into a which is better Porsche or BMW fight and in the end it boils down to different strokes for different folks I guess.
Adding personal time has nothing to do with this. This whole car is meant to be done off radar so to speak. Adding in what you think your time is worth as pointles because if that's the case I think I'm worth $1000hr. I mean who's to say what I think I'M worth. I'm talking real #'s from motors that have already been built and raced and still live on. We have one heck of a car scene down here and the things shops will do for business like this is CRAZY!!!! What you don't think ANY shop would cut a deal with you to build a system for teh SL-C just to be able to put it on their site or show it at a show or two; DON'T KID YOURSELF!!!!!! I've been through this with my BMW and having learned what I did I would NEVER PAY FULL RETAIL FOR ANYTHING!!!!!!! Remember that even Fran discounts his product just for oredering the delux package so why would you think other wouldn't when approached properly?

 

[Damian]

Again Jeff builds some beautiful motors that last I just think he charges WAY to much and again that's just my opinion based on what I have experienced personaly.

 

[Damian]

These guys will do a billet from $7,800 CN Blocks ~ Specials Just saying Up to 9 1/2" tall deck and that's with NO DISCOUNT!! Ask for Chuck I told them about this site. I have NO affiliation with them and only posted to show what was avialable when you look outside of what Mr.Jones down the street has.

 

[Ben Whittle]

Whilst it might be cast, it's done by Cosworth (who know what they are doing) and it'll supposedly handle ~2000bhp.

How much power do you need?

 

[Damian]

You don't need billet at all but then again who needs a 40K Jeff motor when some of us just proved that the same could be had for far less? Heck even the tunes are mail order ready LOL. BTW did any of you bother to go to any of the companies that I posted sites to see the quality of what they offer? Again Jeff makes some great packages but he does not hold a corner on the market for high HP motors that last or quality builds.

 

[Juice Lucas]

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/pricesheets/chevy/dailydriver/tt/dds_355_tt.pdf

800hp SBC all in for $26K... Food for thought... goes back to lurking this forum until I have funds for purchase...

 

[Juice Lucas]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMWpel2MsgI&list=UUHYi8icg8EC6DvMJD5OcTOg]Mid Engine 1200 HP TT 427 CI Mirror Image Turbo LSC. Factory 5 GTM. Nelson Racing Engines. 1080P - YouTube[/ame]

Competitor car with 1200hp. $40k range though.

 

[Kyle]

Mid Engine 1200 HP TT 427 CI Mirror Image Turbo LSC. Factory 5 GTM. Nelson Racing Engines. 1080P - YouTube

Competitor car with 1200hp. $40k range though.

Toms engines are brilliant pieces of Kit.

My engine is already in the works. Now all I have to do is decide what chasis I am going stuff it into. I know there are other real good engine builders out there but I do not see any others doing so many cool things. I am just not talking quirky cool, they work, they are strong and them make huge power.

The Motor I have gone with is a RSR aluminum blocked LSX type motor that should be good for about 850hp and about 700 torques in a normally aspirated confuguration. OH yeah let the fun begin.

 

[Henry]

You can throw a Hellion Turbo kit on an 03-04 Cobra engine and pump out mid 800hp on the stock/forged bottom end and that can be purchased for just $6K. If you go with their TT kit is will push over 1,100 hp on the factory bottom end and that kit is 7K. Much cheaper poisons out there.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

But bloody expensive transaxles to cope with this or any of the cheaper poisons though....
Engine power is readily available and potentially inexpensive...but the trans is neither unfortunately

 

[Henry]

Exactly why I am rethinking an SLC build Man I want one but Holy $h*t the trans makes it almost out of my range. decision, decisions.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Its part of the deal unfortunately.....big power, well actually its torque that kills the trans not power per se..
If someone is using turbos the boost can be phased and lessen the hit on the transaxle.
Big power engines require big $$$ transmission or transaxles ...bummer I know but thats life.
Just make sure you dont want to use an Xtrac ...just got a quote for the 01 car...with all the parts I would love to have its close to $65k..... so not a chance of ever seeing one in my garage

To keep things in perspective a standard G50 will cope with 500 hp without too much trouble and we ran a G97 with 700hp and no issues...and a used G50 can still be purchased for $3500-4000 all day

The 01 car beat much higher hp/budget cars in 2011 and 2012 ...and we did it with 535rwhp..... so 700-1000hp cars sound great on paper but they create a whole world of knock on effect issues....heat being another important one.

 

[Troy Truglio]

I also think people forget how light the SLC is so is really anything above the 700hp range anything any of us can use except for bragging rights? So 700 in a 2300lb car is the same as 1200hp in a 4000+ mustang, so it is all relative. Those mustangs and camaros are stupid heavy. Even a regular vette on the scales is like 1000lbs more. Maybe at some point the wheels will not spin and a straight line is something above 100mph, but really how can it be used. The ls376 I got a ride in was really fast.

As far as transaxle, keep the tq down and rev a bit to make power should help them last.

I am personally doing an LS1 at 350hp at first and then the flat plane crank engine at 600hp+ and am I thinking that might be over the top. I am also building up 3.3L V6 for another project that has almost 400hp at the crank and could bore it out to like 3.8L if I wanted and have 450hp out of it at higher rpms. That would be a good 100-150lbs lighter and more compact than the V8. I still wonder if I should have just put the v6 in there and kept the car under 2000lbs, but the flat plane will be good when done.

 

[Henry]

I just want to use a tuned Mustang Coyote engine. Previously thought of using a modded Chevy truck motor but the Coyote is starting to show up in salvage yards for decent prices.