Vendors / Garage Sale / Subforums

[Ron Earp]

Man, if it has to do with libel, slander, or a problem with selling something on the forum - it comes from the UK......

Guys, the forum can't be everything for everyone but we do want to be useful for MOST people. A couple of fundamentals:

*The forum costs money to operate, that is a given. And, it shouldn't be paid for by me, the forum should be supported by the users.

*If there is a forum that discusses X, there will be vendors that want to use to forum to sell X and products associated with X.

I like the idea of a garage sale that is 100% free to anyone on the forum, that is, you don't have to be a supporter to use the garage sale. Think of it as Craigslist for GT40s without the commercial posts. I devised the Garage Sale rules to eliminate middle men and to prevent vendors from selling wares for free.

I like the idea of vendors on the site. Vendors generate income from advertising and selling on the forum. They benefit from the forum's existence, therefore, they should contribute to the forum's operation expenses and be interested in the long-term viability of the site.

The conflict we have here is that there isn't a specific plan for the "hobby vendor". A guy that makes twenty of something and wants to sell them for a profit (no, profit isn't a dirty word so everyone quit saying they just want to break even). The hobby vendor can't post in the Garage Sale because it is a violation of those rules, and, s/he can't post in the Vendor selling area either because s/he isn't a vendor due to the $395 basic entry barrier. And, who is or isn't a hobby vendor is open to interpretation.

So what to do? Options:

*Do nothing, delete hobby vendor posts from the Garage Sale subforum.

*Allow hobby vendors to post in the Garage Sale subforum.

*Change the Garage Sale to be available for forum supporters only thereby forcing a hobby vendor to contribute to the forum in a small way.

*Remove the Vendor program entirely and run the site only on member contributions, vendors have free reign to post anywhere anytime

*Remove the Vendor program and disallow all commercial postings.

And undoubtedly there are more but I have to get back to work.

 

[Keith Stafford]

Ron

It used to be the colonies that were the trouble, now us.

*Change the Garage Sale to be available for forum supporters only thereby forcing a hobby vendor to contribute to the forum in a small way.

* OR... keep the Garage Sale for one-ofs and have a new section "Bits n Bobs" section, for supporters only (not vendors).


As it stands I cannot sell plural of anything in the Garage Sale section, I can sell 1 item not more.

FWIW

Keith

 

[Ron Earp]

As it stands I cannot sell plural of anything in the Garage Sale section, I can sell 1 item not more.

FWIW

Keith

Dude, don't be pedantic.

You got eight valve cover bolts? Sure you can sell them. Four wheels? Sure. Eight wheels cause you had one set for drys and one for rains? Sure. Two carbs, a Holley and a Demon? Sure, sell away.

Eight sets of bundle of snakes exhausts? No. You're producing those for sale and you know it. Ten plastic light covers? No, you're making those too for re-sale.

Just like porn, you know it when you see it.

 

[Keith Stafford]

Wow, Forum Rule 1 "...In short, don’t berate, belittle, or ridicule your fellow forum member."

Sorry thought we were discussing this 'issue', simply pointing out the flaw in the present rule re. garage sales.

Keith

 

[Ron Earp]

I'm not belittling or berating you, just asking you to practically interpret the rules. Clearly the Garage Sale rules are not written to prevent you from "selling more than one of anything".

 

[glen]

eight sets of bundle of eight exhausts? where? who? really? cool!! ha ha! (can you see what i need?)
there is no fixed rule to cover this...and where does the "hobby manufacturer stand when he is genuinly making more to help someone out, and not make profit? i have experienced the helpfulness of other members a few times, so it does go on! i think there is a vacancy for a "forum police tupe person, who uses his common!!

 

[Doug S.]

I like the idea of having to be a forum sponsor, even if it is the lowest level, to post ANYTHING for sale...but not to purchase.

Perhaps a "tiered" sponsor requirement....lifetime supporters can post for sale items on any of the appropriate forums, gold supporters on all except one (your choice), silver supporters on all except two (again, your choice), bronze supporters on whatever is left (guess who gets to choose).

I've never bought or sold anything on the forum...but have seen some who seemed to be here only for that purpose. If they are going to derive income from the website, I guess I feel that paying a small yearly fee for a sponsoring membership is just the cost of doing "business", whether it is for profit or not.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Brian Kissel]

I have purchased items from other members on the forum, including Ron. I enjoy the opportunity to be able to do this. I personally think if a fellow occasonially makes a few of something to help cover his costs, and make a few bucks, what the hell. Let him sell it if he is a lifetime supporting member. Perhaps limit the amount of times he could do that in a year. Let all the other level supporting members sell their extra one offs or as Rons example, true spare parts. What really pisses me off is the people who Google or Bing, and find the GT40s website. They then pop in as a non supporting member, unload ther junk and are never herd from again. The forum must be self supporting in my opinion, as Ron should never have any out of pocket expenses. There are a few non supporting members that use very large amounts of band width, with tons of pictures for all of us to see. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the pictures also. I just think if they can do all of that, why not support the forum, in some small way. I have been on here several years, and it only gets better. There is very little trouble here compared to some of the forums I visit.

As always, your opinions are yours, and this is mine. For whatever it is worth.

Regards Brian

 

[Brett James-McCall]

I vote option 3. We all want to build these cars and at times we want to try and do it ourselves and it incurs some sort of cost and people may like it and say any left over, or you may do something like Kickstarter and say anyone want to come in on this.

I will say though, as a moderator, I would personally monitor individuals to see if they keep producing or start doing it multiple times; I think there has to be a reasoned limit that if you start doing production runs or start doing multiple parts then you cross the line and then you should be a vendor.

The vendors are the vendors and they should be able to promote their wares, for they are the people that 95% go to; but I think we should also encourage innovation from members not be a hinderance (for instance I know one manufacturer now incorporates an idea that I asked him to do for my car), but there has to be at least some quid pro quo, as Ron states it costs to run this forum.

The above is my own opinion (just in case...)

 

[Andy Green]

Well, as I seemed to open up this wound, I ought to add my thoughts;

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I understand why AndyS has raised this as an issue. He has a living to made, but when you understand how much margin he is making, from a simple part like this, offering competition is the only way to drive prices to an acceptable level. After all we are all doing this as a hobby and for me I don’t have much spare cash and I enjoy making good quality parts.
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Regarding how this should be handled on the Forum. If I have to pay the Vendor sponsorship fees, I wouldn’t bother or consider selling them through Ebay. I’ve happily paid up to become a supporter, which I think is the minimum to sell batch parts like this. A sub-forum would be the right place for parts like this, as I’m sure there are others who can supply small run parts that of interest to all of us (steering wheel badges being another current favourite).
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Regards,<o></o>
Andy<o></o>

 

[Ron Earp]

Well, as I seemed to open up this wound, I ought to add my thoughts;

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Regarding how this should be handled on the Forum. If I have to pay the Vendor sponsorship fees, I wouldn’t bother or consider selling them through Ebay. I’ve happily paid up to become a supporter, which I think is the minimum to sell batch parts like this. A sub-forum would be the right place for parts like this, as I’m sure there are others who can supply small run parts that of interest to all of us (steering wheel badges being another current favourite).
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Regards,<o></o>
Andy<o></o>

Since you've mentioned it twice I had to go find Paul's transgression in the Garage Sale subforum:

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/garage-sale/15983-steering-wheel-centre-boss-badges.html

It was five years ago. Yes, five years ago Paul placed an advertisement in the Garage Sale area and that advertisement was technically against the subforum rules at the time. As far as I know, that is the only violation and just because Paul did it a long time ago doesn't validate you doing the same now.

Be that as it may, I'm considering options for the for sale forum. However I don't care to be involved in your and Andy's personal disagreement. The simplest solution might be to delete the posting and carry on as we have been since these hobby vendor situations only come along once in a blue moon.

 

[Andy Green]

Hi Ron,
Your're right the original thread is 5 years old, but there is a linked thread in the, Exterior, Interior section which was last updated at Christmas. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o></o>
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You’re the Administrator and I didn’t raise this up as an issue or go looking to give you grief. From the feedback and PM’s I’ve had other from forum members, they are generally in agreement with what I’ve done. As you say hobby vendor situations only come along once in a blue moon, so why spoil it for others by stopping it. If I’d made something that wasn’t in direct competition with AndyS this issue probably wouldn’t have arisen<o></o>
Andy<o></o>

 

[Jim Cowden]

I was a vender several years ago and it worked well for me.
I was only recovering money on parts that I developed.

I since have continued to support as a gold member,I did not go the lifetime membership as it is a one off fee and I felt the gold was an ongoing support to the forum.
I am selling several transaxles and I put them in the garage.
I donated $100 to the forum for the sale add of a vehicle but it was the transaxles I was selling, I never contacted Ron about it I just donated it because it was the right thing to do in my heart.

There is no free lunch in my book,if you want to sell it costs for advertizing, you are hitting a target market and the members are up front and honest, how much easier can it get.

Maybe the add in the garage is X and run it till you sell it.
If someone has 10 of something and sells one then the buyer needs to post on the add that it is sold and that shuts the add down.

Just my thoughts,it has to be simple because Ron dosnt want to be the headmaster and we are all big boys (its not play school).

Jim