Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
I say thank you to all for your service
Veterans Day
- Thread starter molleur
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Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
I tips my hat to Keith for using the correct term Courts Martial, when many with a degree in
Journalism use the incorrect Court Martial.
Keith, from an outsider looking in it does appear that BOB, is purging those Military heads who do not agree with his views or have the temerity to argue with him.
Maybe he fears a military Coup?
Surrounding himself with yes men?
Journalism use the incorrect Court Martial.
Keith, from an outsider looking in it does appear that BOB, is purging those Military heads who do not agree with his views or have the temerity to argue with him.
Maybe he fears a military Coup?
Surrounding himself with yes men?
Many with said degree continually use the expressions 'I've got', 'They've got', and "We've got' as well. :squint:
Those things wouldn't surprise me a darned bit.
PeteB
GT40s Supporter
When I attended Air War College (USAF school for senior officers), there was a full chapter dedicated to the impact of LBJ and later Clinton doing the same thing as BOB is doing. The result was the senior officer core who were left after the purge were referred to as the "Yes Man Air Force". GWB failed to understand he had inherited a Yes Man officer core, and more importantly Yes Man intelligence.
It is critically important that the military can advise the CINC with accurate info without fear of retribution, or the CINC will cease to get truthful info.
Pete
It is critically important that the military can advise the CINC with accurate info without fear of retribution, or the CINC will cease to get truthful info.
Pete
Good to hear the AWC made folks aware of this. Likely not happening in the current political climate. Much more out of control now than during both LBJ and Clinton's administrations combined. BOB has already stacked the DOJ, SCOUSA, NSA, FBI, CIA and
the JCS. Not to mention the other agencies such as the EPA, DAG, HSEC, Treasury, etc. for just a few. I will not get into the IRS and the FED. Or the Czars.
Perhaps an indication of why I am an AOWG!
the JCS. Not to mention the other agencies such as the EPA, DAG, HSEC, Treasury, etc. for just a few. I will not get into the IRS and the FED. Or the Czars.
Perhaps an indication of why I am an AOWG!
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Say Jack, thats quite a statement, as I understand there have been a good number of fairly high ranking officers removed from office.
So you have been told that these Generals/Admirals were removed by President Obama for no reason except that President Obama wanted them gone?
And you believed that without a question?
Were they removed because they did not agree with the President?
Were they removed for just cause?
Were they removed at the orders of President Obama?
I suppose its possible that the "news" service where you get your information forgot to tell you the whole story, lets take a look..........
Vice Admiral Tim Giardina
Head of nuclear missles was removed from his command, not by President Obama, but by his boss, Gen. Kehler. Why, because he was caught using $1,500 in counterfit chips in an Iowa Casino, when questioned about where he got the fake chips he was "evasive".
Major General Michael Carey
Another head of nuclear missles was relieved of his command not by President Obama but by his boss Gen. Kowalski who said that the dismissal was "alcohol-related". Do we want nuclear commanders with "alcohol" problems?
Brigadier General Bryan Roberts
Gen. Roberts was suspended not by President Obama, but by his boss, Gen Cone, after allegations involving "adultery" and a "physical altercation" with a woman who was not his wife.
Two Marine Generals
Gen Gurganus and Gen Sturdevant, were fired not by President Obama, but by their boss Gen James Amos for "negligence" after their base in Afganistan was attacked leading to the deaths of Marines and the distruction of 6 US jet fighters.
Major General Ralph Baker
Gen Baker was removed from his command not by President Obama, but by his boss Gen. Carter Hamm over "alcohol and sexual misconduct charges.
General William Ward
Ward was removed from his commend and demoted after it was determined that he misused Govenment funds.
There are more, but you get the picture......
Now I could be wrong, but it looks to me like these high ranking leaders were removed for cause and that President Obama had nothing to do with it.
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In the past 5 years 197 officers have been purged by BO. Do a search.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Jack, perhaps you or maybe Pat can answer this for me.
For the sake of argument, lets just suppose that President Obama for reasons that are not clear, wanted to get rid of say 197 Flag Officers..........
How would he do that?
Would President Obama just drop off the list with the Joint Chiefs and tell them to do what you have to do, but I want these flag Officers gone...........
Pat would all those Generals go long with that? Would they lie, would they ruin carrers of good men without saying a word?
Or maybe he just contacted their immediate supperiors with orders to fire those Generals/Admarals without cause.
Would all those Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Generals go along with that?
Would General Kehler fire Vice Admiral Tim Giardina without a reason?
Would General Kowalski fire Major General Michael Carey without a reason?
Would General Cone fire Brigadier General Bryan Roberts without a reason?
Would General Amos fire Generals Gurganus and Sturdevant for no reason?
Would General Hamm fire Major General Ralph Baker for no reason?
Would they all keep quiet, even after retiring? Would they lie, make up bogus charges and ruin carrers of good men for President Obama?
I think the chances of that happining are less than ZERO, but I would love to hear from professionals.
For the sake of argument, lets just suppose that President Obama for reasons that are not clear, wanted to get rid of say 197 Flag Officers..........
How would he do that?
Would President Obama just drop off the list with the Joint Chiefs and tell them to do what you have to do, but I want these flag Officers gone...........
Pat would all those Generals go long with that? Would they lie, would they ruin carrers of good men without saying a word?
Or maybe he just contacted their immediate supperiors with orders to fire those Generals/Admarals without cause.
Would all those Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Generals go along with that?
Would General Kehler fire Vice Admiral Tim Giardina without a reason?
Would General Kowalski fire Major General Michael Carey without a reason?
Would General Cone fire Brigadier General Bryan Roberts without a reason?
Would General Amos fire Generals Gurganus and Sturdevant for no reason?
Would General Hamm fire Major General Ralph Baker for no reason?
Would they all keep quiet, even after retiring? Would they lie, make up bogus charges and ruin carrers of good men for President Obama?
I think the chances of that happining are less than ZERO, but I would love to hear from professionals.
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....and yet with all the scandals within the Obama admin (not the LEAST of which being the outright LIES Obama himself told with regard to Obamacare) - NOT EVEN ONE BUREAUCRAT in his administration has been fired.
How does THAT work/equate, exactly?
PeteB
GT40s Supporter
Jim,
It's totally plausible. I don't know the current environment, but witnessed it during the Clinton admin. Gen Fogelman retired because he refused to fire officers Clinton wanted gone. When Folgelman quit, he was replaced by a guy who would and we lost about 200 other flag officers in the USAF. That many retirements that quickly sent quite a ripple down the line and the message that you'd better toe the political line if you wanted a star. We had some crazy fast promotions to fill the gap. For example, my major board was held two years early.
It's totally plausible. I don't know the current environment, but witnessed it during the Clinton admin. Gen Fogelman retired because he refused to fire officers Clinton wanted gone. When Folgelman quit, he was replaced by a guy who would and we lost about 200 other flag officers in the USAF. That many retirements that quickly sent quite a ripple down the line and the message that you'd better toe the political line if you wanted a star. We had some crazy fast promotions to fill the gap. For example, my major board was held two years early.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
PeteB,
I'm not so sure, your best example makes my case. General Fogelman did exactly what any good Officer would do.
I think the chances of ALL those Flag Officers going along with this are essentially ZERO!
Plus, if Obama really had all the Joint Chiefs and top Generals in his pocket, why would he even care about those 197 lower ranked Generals?
Fox does not care about the truth, they only care about painting anything bad that happens as Obama's fault.
They probably don't even realise that what they are really doing is implying is that our Military is moraly bankrupt, entirely corrupt and its leaders are ALL in the pocket of the liberals.
Like I said, ZERO chance!
I'm not so sure, your best example makes my case. General Fogelman did exactly what any good Officer would do.
I think the chances of ALL those Flag Officers going along with this are essentially ZERO!
Plus, if Obama really had all the Joint Chiefs and top Generals in his pocket, why would he even care about those 197 lower ranked Generals?
Fox does not care about the truth, they only care about painting anything bad that happens as Obama's fault.
They probably don't even realise that what they are really doing is implying is that our Military is moraly bankrupt, entirely corrupt and its leaders are ALL in the pocket of the liberals.
Like I said, ZERO chance!
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PeteB
GT40s Supporter
Who said anything about Fox?
You didn't read all of my post. After Fogelman retired over other 200 flag officers WERE forced out. Lots of bogus stuff was made up and the YES MEN went along. It didn't mean the entire military was suddenly turned into liberals (except Gen Clark), it meant they kept their mouths shut and told Clinton and Cohen whatever they wanted to hear. It also meant USAF officers approved target lists in Kosovo that included herds of sheep (I've seen the video) because the CINC wanted more targets.
You didn't read all of my post. After Fogelman retired over other 200 flag officers WERE forced out. Lots of bogus stuff was made up and the YES MEN went along. It didn't mean the entire military was suddenly turned into liberals (except Gen Clark), it meant they kept their mouths shut and told Clinton and Cohen whatever they wanted to hear. It also meant USAF officers approved target lists in Kosovo that included herds of sheep (I've seen the video) because the CINC wanted more targets.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Yes Jack it was about Veterans, we made it all the way to post #7 before Al and then and you turned it into an absurd attack on our Military leaders.
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Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Aw well Mr.Never Ever Wrong is back. At least we had some reasoned discussion for a couple of weeks.
To all Veterans everywhere. LEST WE FORGET.
To all Veterans everywhere. LEST WE FORGET.
