which audi 6 speed diesel box for my 302?

[joe]

i want to upgrade from an old manual audi 500e 5 speed "petrol gearbox" to a more recent audi 6 speed "diesel box" (not the most recent - cost being a factor).
i believe that the diesel boxes are slightly biggger & that the gear ratios are longer, which is what i'm looking for - for longer legs to take the revs. i also think that the diesel box would fit the same adaptor plate this has to go onto a newly built 302 delivering about 350 horses max. to all you experts; which would be the best box to shop for, i'm thinking year model & engine capacity, ie, look for a 2005-2007 year 2,7tdi box. would also appreciate if you have ratio breakdowns or comparisons, only on audi boxes please. cheers. :thumbsup:

 

[Brett James-McCall]

I have an Audi 01X with the FYA code (I am still building). Its from a 2003+ Audi A4/A6. My installation uses the Kennedy Audi 5000 adaptor plate, flywheel, pressure plate. ALl you will need is a drive plate made up and a different spigot bearing adaptor and needle roller bearing.... and probably a rebalance of your engine.

Ratios are:
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=43 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 32pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1572" width=43><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: white 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: white 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff6600" width=43 height=17 x:num="3.6669999999999998">3.667</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: white; BORDER-LEFT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: white 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff6600" height=17 x:num="2.0529999999999999">2.053</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: white; BORDER-LEFT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: white 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff6600" height=17 x:num>1.37</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: white; BORDER-LEFT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: white 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff6600" height=17 x:num="1.032">1.032</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: white; BORDER-LEFT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: white 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff6600" height=17 x:num>0.8</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: white; BORDER-LEFT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: white 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff6600" height=17 x:num="0.65800000000000003">0.658</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: white; BORDER-LEFT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: white 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff6600" height=17> </TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: white; BORDER-LEFT: white 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff6600" height=17 x:num="3.556">3.556</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Gearbox:-
Tyre:- Kumho 315 35 17
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Gear gives 32.685 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 196.108 MPH at 6000 RPM
Engine speeds in top gear:-

30 MPH = 918 RPM 40 MPH = 1224 RPM 50 MPH = 1530 RPM 60 MPH = 1836 RPM
70 MPH = 2142 RPM 80 MPH = 2448 RPM 90 MPH = 2754 RPM 100 MPH = 3060 RPM

Top Speed in 1 gear = 35.189 MPH
And changes into 2 gear at 3359 RPM dropping 2641 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 62.854 MPH
And changes into 3 gear at 4004 RPM dropping 1996 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 94.189 MPH
And changes into 4 gear at 4520 RPM dropping 1480 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 125.038 MPH
And changes into 5 gear at 4651 RPM dropping 1349 RPM
Top Speed in 5 gear = 161.299 MPH
And changes into 6 gear at 4935 RPM dropping 1065 RPM
Top Speed in 6 gear = 196.108 MPH

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Also, I forgot to mention, if you get a slave cylinder Sachs p/n 8EO 721 257 M, then Roaring Forties have had some adaptors made so you can link it easily into your clutch system.

You just need to speak to Paul.

 

[joe]

thanks man, so have you not yet run this gearbox? do you perhaps have a pick?
cheers.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

 

[Chuck]

Where did you source the pilot bearing? Did it require an adaptor or something due to difference in shaft length? Was that the only change from an 016 needed to install it?

From the picture, it appears the shift linkage would be in a different location than the 016 trannsmissions (gasoline engine). Where is the linkage located on yours?

I like those ratios!

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Chuck,
I made the adaptor myself, see below. I go the roller bearing here in the UK from RS spares: IKO Nippon Thompson | Mechanical Components | Bearings and Seals | Roller Bearings | Needle Rollers



As for the gearchange, this is what I have done. Its an earlier setup photo whilst I was figuring things out

 

[Scott]

The 0A2 was installed behind the 2.7tdi, the 01X was only installed behind the lower horsepower cars, like the 4 cylinder and the V6 gas models, it is considered by many as light duty transmission. The 0A2 is the replacement for the bulletproof 01E. We are currently working a deal to obtain new 0A2's directly from Audi and VW AG in Europe.

The 0A2 FWD unit comes in one ratio set only with different ring and pinions, but all are diesel gearboxes so they have rather wide ratios.

 

[Scott]

The 2.7tdi 0A2 FWD has the following ratios:
1 32/9 3.56
2 40/21 1.90
3 36/29 1.24
4 30/34 .88
5 29/44 .66
6 29/52 .56

Final drive of either 3.75 or 3.625

The 01E FWD came in 2 different ratio sets..

1 3.50
2 1.89
3 1.23
4 .86
5 .67
6 .56 (or .60)

final 3.85

or

1 3.75
2 2.14
3 1.51
4 1.17
5 .97
6 .82

final 3.85

We are working with some gear manufacturers
for alternative ratios for the 01E and 0A2.
</pre>

 

[Brett James-McCall]

the 01X was only installed behind the lower horsepower cars, like the 4 cylinder and the V6 gas models, it is considered by many as light duty transmission.

Thanks, but it seems to be doing OK on Andy Hill's Esprit V8 conversion, where he runs a 4.2 Audi V8. That's good enough for me. Plus the box was cheap :laugh:

Brett

 

[Dave P]

Hi:

Do these boxes have a limited slip diff. or a gleason torsen unit in them?

 

[Chuck]

Brett:

Thanks for the info regarding the adaptor you fabricated. I was afraid of that. Don't have a machine shop in my garage. Wonder if anyone markets that adaptor?

The alignment of the shift linkage cables appears to be similar, and hopefully the same, as a gas version 016. Would you happen to know?

Chuck

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Hey Chuck, sorry don't know on the alignment, but having followed your build I am more than sure that you could work around that problem. I have looked at what you have acheived with envy :thumbsup:

Here's a couple of PDFs that may help you out. 1 is the drawing I did for the adaptor. If all else fails I guess you could get someone with a small hobby lathe to turn it up for you (ignore the material bit, I ended up using some bar I just had laying around, I only have a hobby lathe). BTW no guarantees on the dimensions etc You'll need to check everything first

The other is the rough drawing I did for Helix, who made my drive plate up. The input shafts are in a different place (and size, the 01X has a bigger shaft and spline).

Brett

 

[Scott]

Thanks, but it seems to be doing OK on Andy Hill's Esprit V8 conversion, where he runs a 4.2 Audi V8. That's good enough for me. Plus the box was cheap

Brett

Get some real power in front of an 01X and report back. :cool2: I have some clients in Europe that have destroyed several 01X gearboxes with a simple depression of the accelerator pedal.

Hi:

Do these boxes have a limited slip diff. or a gleason torsen unit in them?

A limited slip or Torsen unit can be configured for the 01X, 016, 01E, and 0A2 units none came with them from the factory.

Wonder if anyone markets that adaptor?

034 Motorsports used to have them.

The alignment of the shift linkage cables appears to be similar, and hopefully the same, as a gas version 016. Would you happen to know?

Chuck

The transmissions require their own versions of shifters, you can probably make an 016 style linkage work, however the shift patterns will be different.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Scott,
I guess it is what you are happy with at the end of the day and knowing your hardware's limits and capabilities. I am under no illusion. The Audi is a box that will get my car going and I am not planning to try and stick stupid horsepower through it. Primarily it will be a road car and I will learn to drive it and get it setup over a period of time. At the end of the day you don't need massive horseower to drive fast/have fun. I prove that every day on my way to work driving a 120PS car and regularly outdoing some M3s that take the smae route in these strange little things called corners and roundabouts

Anyway to put in in perspective. I see that on your website, a 01E costs $2,695 (I assume plus some form of tax in the US). I paid a mere $155 for my box and a friend overhauled it for not much for me.

Right must pack... holiday in the morning WOOHOOO :chug:

Brett

 

[Scott]

Scott,
I guess it is what you are happy with at the end of the day and knowing your hardware's limits and capabilities. I am under no illusion. The Audi is a box that will get my car going and I am not planning to try and stick stupid horsepower through it. Primarily it will be a road car and I will learn to drive it and get it setup over a period of time. At the end of the day you don't need massive horseower to drive fast/have fun. I prove that every day on my way to work driving a 120PS car and regularly outdoing some M3s that take the smae route in these strange little things called corners and roundabouts

Anyway to put in in perspective. I see that on your website, a 01E costs $2,695 (I assume plus some form of tax in the US). I paid a mere $155 for my box and a friend overhauled it for not much for me.

Right must pack... holiday in the morning WOOHOOO :chug:

Brett

My main market is gearboxes being able to handle 400+ bhp day in and day out, vehicles that see more track use than not.

If the 01X suits your engine and driving environment then it is a good choice for you.

There is no Tax on that price.

Have a good Holiday!

 

[Chuck]

Some really useful information this thread. Let me see if I am getting the picture right.

To convert from an 016 gas transmission to an O1E or O1X diesel transmission will require:

1. Spacer adapter since the input shaft is shorter

2. Replacement adaptor plate since the alignment of the input shaft is different.

3. Different hookup for the shifter cables (possibly)

4. Different slave cyinder.

5. Different clutch since the input shaft and splines are different.

Before I do more research, does anyone know:

1. Does anyone make spacer plates for the O1E? (Kennedy perhaps?)

2. I assume the clutch is readily available (Kennedy perhaps?)

3. Does anyone make the shifter cable bracket? I am guessing not. . . . .

This looks like a good conversion, just want to have a good idea of what it will take to get it done before I make the plunge . . . Am I missing anything?

 

[Steve26]

So I hope this is not a stupid question but can the 3:55 R&P be put in an Audi 016 5N gearbox? I have a 4:11 in mine and the 3:55 would be a huge improvement. Thanks

Steve

 

[David Briggs]

I have a kit that is used by CAV to adapt the Audi to Ford small block.
Adapters and clutch and flywheel.
All brand new.
Dave

 

[Bobski]

Hey Guys,
Regarding some of the adaptor plates for the O1E, give Roaring Forties a try and speak to paul as he would be able to help to gide you on the right direction.
I'm running a DQS A8 diesel box in my RF which produces over 900fwhp and have no probs with it. I did find the box a little slugish to change gears, but apart from that, the box looked new after over 5,000km done (and most under full noise).
It has taken some time, and with the help from Pfitzner Performance Gearbox (PPG), we have come up with a straight cut dog gearset for the 01E. These can be made in helical as well and synco. The reason I went this way is for the simple fact that I don't want to warry about the box and I want lightning fast gear changes with better gear ratios.
I'll try to post some photos of the actual gearset (they're over 2m each and I'm not sure if I can reduce them) but at this point of time, I can't comment on the performance as it's not in the car as yet. Once in the car, I'll start a new thread on the box.