Wilwood braking systems
- Thread starter jkyle69
- Start date
D
DavidTC
Guest
John
The first thing to ask is what size rotors are you fitting and what is the pad shape for the caliper you have chosen?. Presumably you will have relevant measurements on the components you already have and for the proposed caliper/pad set up in which case the size of any adapting mounting block for the caliper should be straight forward.
When my CAV gets finished it should have Wilwood 6 pots on the front with 340mm diameter rotors. The mounting block will then be customized for the fitting. You need a small but reasonable clearance on the inner wheel diameter to allow for wheel flexing. In fact that is the other obvious question to ask ,what size wheels are you using ?(minewill be 17in)
Regards
David
The first thing to ask is what size rotors are you fitting and what is the pad shape for the caliper you have chosen?. Presumably you will have relevant measurements on the components you already have and for the proposed caliper/pad set up in which case the size of any adapting mounting block for the caliper should be straight forward.
When my CAV gets finished it should have Wilwood 6 pots on the front with 340mm diameter rotors. The mounting block will then be customized for the fitting. You need a small but reasonable clearance on the inner wheel diameter to allow for wheel flexing. In fact that is the other obvious question to ask ,what size wheels are you using ?(minewill be 17in)
Regards
David
John, I am in the process of choosing an upgrade as well. I happened to be looking at the Rally Design website and noted that they have a priced front and rear upgrade listed for GT40 replica.Rally Design
I phoned them, but they said that it was not designed yet, and would be months rather than weeks, so their website listing is a little premature. Their listing is to fit 16" wheels, and I suspect that on the rear a large wheel offset is required to clear the outside of caliper.
See my thread onDAX40 upgrade.
I know that this is not exactly what you are doing, but it is related and might be of some interest to you. I would certainly be interested in exchanging any useful info with you.
cheers
Dave Bilyk
I phoned them, but they said that it was not designed yet, and would be months rather than weeks, so their website listing is a little premature. Their listing is to fit 16" wheels, and I suspect that on the rear a large wheel offset is required to clear the outside of caliper.
See my thread onDAX40 upgrade.
I know that this is not exactly what you are doing, but it is related and might be of some interest to you. I would certainly be interested in exchanging any useful info with you.
cheers
Dave Bilyk
D
DavidTC
Guest
Interesting to hear what you can apparently get away with on GT40's. I am more familiar with Ferrari (F40), where there is probably only one design of 6 pot (from AP Racing) that will squeeze inside 17in rims let alone 16in. Brake upgrades with a decent pad area and 6 pots normally requires going to 18in or even 19in rims. Where does all the space come from in the GT40 ?.
Regards
David
Regards
David
David,
Q. Where does all the space come from in the GT40 ?.
A. Time And Relative Dimensions In Space /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Yes, it can be difficult, not only diameter, but side clearance at the rear.
Most GT40's start life with 15" inch wheels. My 3 piece wheels have an internal diameter of 365 mm, that generally equates to a max disc size of 300mm. A lot of cars have 17" wheels in order to get larger discs in, however the car is way lighter than road cars, so 300 will do for most purposes.
The biggest problem is at the back. The weight distribution is such that rear calipers from front engined cars are too small for effective braking on a mid engined car. With sliding calipers, there is no room to get a 4 pot in, so you need a big wheel offset, or a repositioned caliper mounting lug.
Dave Bilyk
Q. Where does all the space come from in the GT40 ?.
A. Time And Relative Dimensions In Space /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Yes, it can be difficult, not only diameter, but side clearance at the rear.
Most GT40's start life with 15" inch wheels. My 3 piece wheels have an internal diameter of 365 mm, that generally equates to a max disc size of 300mm. A lot of cars have 17" wheels in order to get larger discs in, however the car is way lighter than road cars, so 300 will do for most purposes.
The biggest problem is at the back. The weight distribution is such that rear calipers from front engined cars are too small for effective braking on a mid engined car. With sliding calipers, there is no room to get a 4 pot in, so you need a big wheel offset, or a repositioned caliper mounting lug.
Dave Bilyk
There are number of guys here in US that have upgraded to Wilwood. Below are Trevor Jones's GTD front brake calipers (I hope he does not mind). He has 15" wheels with 12.72" rotors, rally design hats and 4 piston Superlight IIA Wilwoods (note the spacer in front of the hat and "L" bracket for the attachment of the caliper).
Howard Jones (no relation to Trevor) also has a Wilwood set up. If you do the work, you don't need to spend $3000 for brakes, unless you MUST have "gold plated" AP stuff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Howard Jones (no relation to Trevor) also has a Wilwood set up. If you do the work, you don't need to spend $3000 for brakes, unless you MUST have "gold plated" AP stuff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Attachments
D
DavidTC
Guest
Dave
Thanks for the note. The Ferrari has 330mm disks on 17in wheels,whereas I am looking to put 340mm disks on 17in wheels on the CAV. Interesting that you mention the isssue of 3 piece wheels since an issue for the Ferrari for going to 'beefier' calipers is the clearance from the end of the fittings in the inside wheel wall. Most performance modern cars now go for one peice alloy wheels with substantial 'bowing' on the 'spokes' This aids air pumping BUT importantly creates more space for the caliper. Fortunately the CAV will have one piece 17in alloys.I will eventually fit carbon ceramic rotors where one normally goes for slightly larger rotor diameter and also bigger pad area.
Regards
David
Thanks for the note. The Ferrari has 330mm disks on 17in wheels,whereas I am looking to put 340mm disks on 17in wheels on the CAV. Interesting that you mention the isssue of 3 piece wheels since an issue for the Ferrari for going to 'beefier' calipers is the clearance from the end of the fittings in the inside wheel wall. Most performance modern cars now go for one peice alloy wheels with substantial 'bowing' on the 'spokes' This aids air pumping BUT importantly creates more space for the caliper. Fortunately the CAV will have one piece 17in alloys.I will eventually fit carbon ceramic rotors where one normally goes for slightly larger rotor diameter and also bigger pad area.
Regards
David
[ QUOTE ]
John, I am in the process of choosing an upgrade as well. I happened to be looking at the Rally Design website and noted that they have a priced front and rear upgrade listed for GT40 replica.Rally Design
I phoned them, but they said that it was not designed yet, and would be months rather than weeks, so their website listing is a little premature. Dave Bilyk
[/ QUOTE ]
i've calld ralley design to for a comleet frontbrakingset for standaardgranada and they said that they have to order 20 sets
you can order the callipers and rotors but you need to make the hat yourself
I'm going to put willwood in aswell i've got 15 inch rims and are going to use 298,5 mm rotors
when i informed for brakes here in holland they told me that it would cost about 5000,- euro 3300 pound they did charge 600,-euro 400 pound for one calliper as to 238"pound for the 6pot from rallydesing
so a big diverence
John, I am in the process of choosing an upgrade as well. I happened to be looking at the Rally Design website and noted that they have a priced front and rear upgrade listed for GT40 replica.Rally Design
I phoned them, but they said that it was not designed yet, and would be months rather than weeks, so their website listing is a little premature. Dave Bilyk
[/ QUOTE ]
i've calld ralley design to for a comleet frontbrakingset for standaardgranada and they said that they have to order 20 sets
you can order the callipers and rotors but you need to make the hat yourself
I'm going to put willwood in aswell i've got 15 inch rims and are going to use 298,5 mm rotors
when i informed for brakes here in holland they told me that it would cost about 5000,- euro 3300 pound they did charge 600,-euro 400 pound for one calliper as to 238"pound for the 6pot from rallydesing
so a big diverence
D
DavidTC
Guest
That sounds ridiculously expensive particularly if you have to provide your own bell housings. Have you looked at MOVIT as an alternate.
Who mentioned gold plated AP Racing !(AP itself is apparently in administration; AP Racing is part of Brembo).
David
Who mentioned gold plated AP Racing !(AP itself is apparently in administration; AP Racing is part of Brembo).
David
I have upgraded my brakes on the GTD to wilwood 4-pot calipers and rotors. I ordered them through Rally Design. They don't supply the GT40 kit anymore, so I ordered all items seperately. Costs were around 1500 GBP (2250 Euro/2000 Dollar) I used the universal bells, which were perfect for getting the correct offset and a straight fit for wilwood HD vane rotors. Included were pedal assembly with balance bar and cilinders. I don't see the necessity of fitting 6-pot calipers, when you look at the weight of the our cars. 4-Pots will stop the rotors easily, so the quality of braking will eventually be influenced by the softness of your tire compound. Machine work for producing decent brackets costed an additional 100 Euro.
Regards,
Gerard
Regards,
Gerard
D
DavidTC
Guest
Gerard
A sensible cost effective approach for road use but if you upgrade to larger contact area road tyres on 17in wheels/and or slicks for track use you can utlilise bigger rotors and 6 pot calipers to advantage. Recall that F1 cars weighing 650 kilos or so only have 280x28mm rotors with unassisted 6pots but the contact area even with grooved 'slicks' allows them to pull 6g( a bit of a cheat since aerodynamic drag contributes typically 1.5g!).
Regards
David
A sensible cost effective approach for road use but if you upgrade to larger contact area road tyres on 17in wheels/and or slicks for track use you can utlilise bigger rotors and 6 pot calipers to advantage. Recall that F1 cars weighing 650 kilos or so only have 280x28mm rotors with unassisted 6pots but the contact area even with grooved 'slicks' allows them to pull 6g( a bit of a cheat since aerodynamic drag contributes typically 1.5g!).
Regards
David
thank's brett
i'd sent them a mail if they also have a rear set for a pantera
i'd sent them a mail if they also have a rear set for a pantera
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Frank,
I have AP 4 pots on the front of mine with 315 discs. I picked them up from a forum member here and then had to get my bells made up. Total costs was (at current exchange) less than €1500. I've attachedf a pic. If you are not worried about size on the rear, you could use a Scorpio Granada disc that is 280 and vented and then go for something like the new Wilwood Powerlite rear caliper, you would just have to get the bracketry made up.
Brett
[edit] PS I nearly forgot to add. Are you a member of the GT40 Enthusiasts Club? If so, one of our members had some Ap calipers for sale at a very good price. Might be a start?
I have AP 4 pots on the front of mine with 315 discs. I picked them up from a forum member here and then had to get my bells made up. Total costs was (at current exchange) less than €1500. I've attachedf a pic. If you are not worried about size on the rear, you could use a Scorpio Granada disc that is 280 and vented and then go for something like the new Wilwood Powerlite rear caliper, you would just have to get the bracketry made up.
Brett
[edit] PS I nearly forgot to add. Are you a member of the GT40 Enthusiasts Club? If so, one of our members had some Ap calipers for sale at a very good price. Might be a start?
Attachments
i'm not a member yet but i'm planning to be one soon
Howard Jones
Supporter
Howard Jones
Supporter
Side view, Superlight 2A with 12.13 diameter HD curved vane caliper.
Howard Jones
Supporter
