SPF GT40 Genesis

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Thank you Grady.

It may not be known, but I hold the moderators position for the Superformance forum here. I hope I never need to "step in" but if things become uncivilized, I'll do it. I really will. I mean it. Don't make me tell your father!!!

Come on guys. lets keep it on track and civil.

Word of advice to a first time poster, tossing a grenade into a room full of GT40 owners is not the way to make friends!

 

[Rich E.]

I wonder if the change in paint quality had anything to do with a switch to water based paint. I'm not sure if it was a federal or state thing but here in California the change happened in 08 I believe. My car is black, built in 07, and had absolutely no orange peel.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

(Re: hand grenades, yeah we're quick, we throw them right back and then follow that with a bunker buster)

Rich I don't know if you caught this, but mine has nearly mirror-smooth paint and is one behind Michael's in serial numbers (2160 and 2161). Also the picture he shows doesn't look like normal orange-peel to me; it's quite irregular. I'm not a painter though so I don't know how to diagnose that.

And don't forget these are painted in South Africa -- who knows if they have paint-related pollution laws.

I will say that there is an amazing inconsistency in assembly quality within my car; I've noticed several times that it's as if the left side was done by a normal guy and the the right side was done by a drunk. So maybe it's just that Michael got different personnel than I did. Or as he suggested, it was after happy hour when they put his together. Maybe mine was done right about when happy hour started. That might explalin the left-side/right-side differences.

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

I wonder if the change in paint quality had anything to do with a switch to water based paint. I'm not sure if it was a federal or state thing but here in California the change happened in 08 I believe. My car is black, built in 07, and had absolutely no orange peel.

The GTs were painted with PPG system non-water based paint. Hi Tech has since switched to the Glasurit system. I have not seen any real orange peel in the chassis' I have had. I had a black 1046 clone MK II that we took to several shows and had many positive comments on the paint/body quailty and that is black, the hardest color to do on a compsit body.

I don't doubt Michael's car has some poor surfaces, I just wonder what the reason is. I have also not seen any rough/unfinshed areas in scoops etc. I was surprised when I stuck my arms in the MK II side and pillar scoops and came out with no abraisions or FRP mat pieces imbedded in my skin.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

You guys who have SPF cars don't know how lucky you are. I've compared my car side-by-side to an SPF car and the bodywork and paint on the SPF car aremuch better than mine- the body for mine was made in old GT40 molds from the 60s which aren't nearly as good as the modern mold technology that Hitech has, even though the molds were reconditioned. Paint on my car is okay, but not great- could use a rub-out and buff, which we'll do after the interior is done. But an SPF looks much more like a production car with smooth bodywork and nice paint free of runs and orange peel than my car does.

And FWIW, the local original car, 1072, has decidedly crude bodywork- may have been good by the standards of the day, but nothing like modern cars. Although, to be fair, it IS nearly fifty years old...

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Oh, and don't even ASK what 1040, another formerly local car, looked like before Robert Ash restored it. You don't want to know.

 

[Mike Trusty]

Here is my guesstimate on what appears to be orange peel on Michael's car. I have noticed the very same appearance on my car 2165. The interesting thing is that this appearance was not there for the first year that I had the car. Now notice that this tecture of the paint in on the roof spider which is the only part of the exterior body that is metal. I have seen this before and it is caused by shrikage of the underlying body finishes. I beleive that the metal that the spider was stamped from actually had surface pitting. Not to say it was corrosion but it could be as simple as hammer marks. This pitting was filled with some type of filler that was either the wrong material for the job or was not given adequate time to flash before painting. As mentioned mine has the same surface roughness in the same place as Michael's which wasn't there when I got the car. Since Michael bought his chassis second hand it is possible that the shrinkage took place before he bought it. The composite parts of my car have flawless paint but not the spider.

 

[Jack Houpe]

You guys who have SPF cars don't know how lucky you are. I've compared my car side-by-side to an SPF car and the bodywork and paint on the SPF car aremuch better than mine- the body for mine was made in old GT40 molds from the 60s which aren't nearly as good as the modern mold technology that Hitech has, even though the molds were reconditioned. Paint on my car is okay, but not great- could use a rub-out and buff, which we'll do after the interior is done. But an SPF looks much more like a production car with smooth bodywork and nice paint free of runs and orange peel than my car does.

And FWIW, the local original car, 1072, has decidedly crude bodywork- may have been good by the standards of the day, but nothing like modern cars. Although, to be fair, it IS nearly fifty years old...

Thanks Jim, thats nice to hear from you, I am very proud of my car and its 150 MPH paint chips from road debris and suicidal bugs.

 

[Mike]

Here is my guesstimate on what appears to be orange peel on Michael's car. I have noticed the very same appearance on my car 2165. The interesting thing is that this appearance was not there for the first year that I had the car. Now notice that this tecture of the paint in on the roof spider which is the only part of the exterior body that is metal. I have seen this before and it is caused by shrikage of the underlying body finishes. I beleive that the metal that the spider was stamped from actually had surface pitting. Not to say it was corrosion but it could be as simple as hammer marks. This pitting was filled with some type of filler that was either the wrong material for the job or was not given adequate time to flash before painting. As mentioned mine has the same surface roughness in the same place as Michael's which wasn't there when I got the car. Since Michael bought his chassis second hand it is possible that the shrinkage took place before he bought it. The composite parts of my car have flawless paint but not the spider.

Mine does seem to have this flaw only in that area and like yours, all the composite pieces seem to be a lot better finished.

 

[Dave Hood]

I have an early SPF Mk1, and don't have any orange peel issues. The only issue I've had is excessive heat from the headers which have caused some minor issues with the paint directly above them on the rear deck. I live near Holman Moody and Lee Holman was able to stop the issue from getting worse by installing a heat shield. This would probably not be an issue if the car was only used for track driving. Since most SPF cars in the US are street driven, it would be nice if they came from the factory with some type of heat shield installed.

 

[Steve C]

Dave,

When Olthoff built 2125 he used a coating on the inside of the rear clamshell used on trucks to coat the inside of composite hoods; works great as there no discoloration of my light blue paint or deformation of the glass laminate.

2125 does have a plexi cover over the engine ( I perfer to the metal plate that comes with the cars) and here in order to prevent the plastic from warping we used a vent in the plastic, polycarbonate vs std plexi and wrapped the high header pipe in thermal wrap

All works great: See pics in my build thread in SPF forum under Upgrades ect to P2125

Steve P2125

 

[Ron R.]

So here is a picture of my rear damper mount. Clearly two layers, exclusive of the washer around the through-bolt. I measured this area at between 0.115 and 0.120 inches.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Ron -- didn't get your picture, but fascinating; that means somewhere along the line SPF realized their mistake and corrected it. So, whatever happened to "built to the original drawings?"

Nice of them to let us know.... oh wait, I guess I've said that before.

 

[Ron R.]

Interesting, Alan. Your mount (posted above) is crearly different from mine. Appears rather "simplified".

What I find perplexing, is that Jim C.'s car is essentially a "sister" car to mine, with two layers in this area, and yet, his still failed.

I see the layers only held together with a few spot welds. I may break out the tourch and weld the edges.

 

[Jim Craik]

Ron,

Yes, I would think ours are very, very similar. Mine has two layers as well, but be careful, several people have told me that at the factory, they "brazed" the two pieces together, so you must be careful cause welding a "brazed" area can be problematic.

 

[Ron R.]

Jim,

I agree, got to clean off the brazing before you can weld. I'll clean off the paint, and if I see evidence of brazing, I'll stop. From my picture, there appears to be 3 spotwelds between the bolt holes...I would bet that in this area, that's all there is.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

What I find perplexing, is that Jim C.'s car is essentially a "sister" car to mine, with two layers in this area, and yet, his still failed..

Well, if I were a pessemist (who, me?) I'd say that just means those of us with the earlier single-layer construction will fail even earlier than Jim's.

Also, even with your two layers you don't have the thickness of the Mk III frame, by about 25%. If you're going to get out the torch, why not slap on the Pathfinder kit while you're at it?

This is just making it clearer to me that the cantilevered anti-roll bar mount needs to be abandoned. IAE that's what I'm going to do.

Ron, when you get a chance please post your frame picture.

Thanks,

Alan.

 

[Ron R.]

Alan,


I see, I was looking at the wrong location (crossmember mount). I'll look again tonight.

 

[Jim Craik]

No Ron, The pix are not showing.

 

[Mike]

Here is 2161. I spoke to Dennis about this and he did not seem highly concerned. I'll trust his expertise but I will say the 3 times I have hit a bump I have cringed. Does not seem like a sophisticated piece and the fix seems straight forward. Curious... it was asked why I had not contacted SPF regarding paint issues. Is this a case that I should contact SPF and request an upgrade? That or just buy a nice welder and fix it myself.