DCT in a GT40

Has anyone ever done/seen one? I'm working my way up to a SPF MkII, and I'm going through the same transaxle quandaries everyone else seems to have been through. I am considering the F1 DCT out of a Ferrari 430. As an aside, would doing that automatically disqualify the car from vintage racing? Not sure I'll want to do that, but also not sure I want to prevent myself from doing it either. Thoughts?
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Don't know much about them but wouldn't they require the use of a pretty sophisticated engine management system to be used in conjunction with such a unit? What engine would you mate it to?
 
Yes, they do. There's a separate gearbox CU that monitors engine condition, esp. RPM that I have to kluge in. I'm planning on a 427 FE.
 

Rick Muck- Mark IV

GT40s Sponsor
Supporter
Yes it will elminate the eligbility for sanctioned vintage racing. Of course track days will still be possible, but SVRA/HSA will not allow the DCT.

It will take some engineering to do the install, you will need a custom bellhousing and likely a custom flywheel to accept the F car clutch pack. The electronics will need to be integrated with the engine ECU to facilitate shifting so fuel injection is now required (another thing that disqualifies for vintage). Add in custom driveshafts, mounts and this will be a major engineering/fabrication job. I am sure it likely can be done, but do you really want to spend what it will take to do it?
 
Hi Rick, I think you're right about the scope of the work, but for me, that's half the fun. I spent many years as a mechanical engineer, so I'm not concerned about being able to pull it off. I can do all the design work of course, and much of the fab. I can get the DCT and GCU for $12K, if I spent $8K on the rest, I think that's a sufficient budget. I'm already planning on an 8-Stack FI, and hopefully the integration of the ECU and GCU wouldn't be too much of a nightmare. As you say, FI takes me out of vintage racing anyway.

The alternative in my mind would be a 6-speed sequential, which would be $25K or more (new). Or a new Recardo from Ford for $16K. Then you still have all the additional, which likely would be similar in cost.
 

Rick Muck- Mark IV

GT40s Sponsor
Supporter
Hi Rick, I think you're right about the scope of the work, but for me, that's half the fun. I spent many years as a mechanical engineer, so I'm not concerned about being able to pull it off. I can do all the design work of course, and much of the fab. I can get the DCT and GCU for $12K, if I spent $8K on the rest, I think that's a sufficient budget. I'm already planning on an 8-Stack FI, and hopefully the integration of the ECU and GCU wouldn't be too much of a nightmare. As you say, FI takes me out of vintage racing anyway.

The alternative in my mind would be a 6-speed sequential, which would be $25K or more (new). Or a new Recardo from Ford for $16K. Then you still have all the additional, which likely would be similar in cost.

The Riccardo will require the rear extension structure be cut and a relief cut in the rear clip bodywork. It has been done previously http://www.gt40s.com/forum/superformance-gt40s/30687-1200-bhp-superformance.html

So long as you are not intending to go vintage racing, the sky is the limit for what you can do with enough time, talent and money....................
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Why would you need a Ricardo? Does an RBT not meet your needs? They are a bolt in. Ricardos are big and heavy and upset the balance of the car.
 
Why would you need a Ricardo? Does an RBT not meet your needs? They are a bolt in. Ricardos are big and heavy and upset the balance of the car.

I'll be getting ~750HP from the engine. Even the Ferrari DCT will need some upgrading to handle it.
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Seems like there are many lately considering the GT40 as a platform for building a high hp car. In my view 500-600hp in a car this light is already more than most us can safely handle. These cars about balance and that much hp along with the Ricardo is not going to be a very balanced car. Have you considered a Ford GT? If you treated it right an RBT would probably be fine with 750hp.
 

Rick Muck- Mark IV

GT40s Sponsor
Supporter
Really the limiting factor to horsepower is getting it to the ground. The available 15" tires limit your traction but also provide protection to the transaxle. If they can't hook up, the chance of hurting the geartrain is small.

You can do a paddle shifted RBT/ZF with the aftermarket kit, would that work for you?
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Did they ever get that to work right? There was a couple videos floating around awhile back of "that" car and it did not shift well at all either on the strip or the street. I also read it was very hard on the transaxle.
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
I am considering the F1 DCT out of a Ferrari 430.

Parts diagram of the 430 clutch:

430 clutch.jpg
 
The Riccardo will require the rear extension structure be cut and a relief cut in the rear clip bodywork. It has been done previously http://www.gt40s.com/forum/superformance-gt40s/30687-1200-bhp-superformance.html

So long as you are not intending to go vintage racing, the sky is the limit for what you can do with enough time, talent and money....................

I would not want to start hacking frame and body to fit the Ricardo. Didn't know that would be necessary. I like it for the fact that they sound bulletproof from a torque standpoint. There are other choices obviously. I've seen some of the add-on kits for flappy-paddle shifting, they seem pricey, but may be a good alternative.

Thanks for all the great info!
 
Seems like there are many lately considering the GT40 as a platform for building a high hp car. In my view 500-600hp in a car this light is already more than most us can safely handle. These cars about balance and that much hp along with the Ricardo is not going to be a very balanced car. Have you considered a Ford GT? If you treated it right an RBT would probably be fine with 750hp.

Is the Ricardo really so much heavier than the alternatives? I know it's built big, but I don't know what the weight is. Most transaxles seem to be in the ~180lb range. Anyway, Rick talked me out of it anyway. Thanks for the feedback!
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
Thanks Alan, very cool. Please correct me, but that looks like a standard clutch, not the clutch pack from the DCT I'm interested in. I only say that from what I've seen of other DCTs, I've never seen the Ferrari.

Right. The optional "F1" paddle-shifted 355, 360 and 430 have otherwise conventional single-clutch transmissions that are made sequential by being shifted by computer-controlled hydraulic actuators. In fact, the corresponding standard lever-shifted transmission and clutch for those cars are internally literally the same.

The 458 has a dual clutch and a correspondingly quite different gearbox design.

The performance of the later 360 and 430 SCTs is very impressive, BTW. Shifts way faster than I ever will.

The 430 and 458 transmissions live behind 500+ HP engines that put out not even 400 ft-lb so life behind an FE might be "nasty, brutish and short" as Mr. Hobbes once said.

It may seem heretical to suggest this, but you might just use the entire F. powertrain. The sound and performance is absolutely glorious. Just grind the F-word off the castings and tell people it's a very rare Cosworth prototype. :)
 
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"It may seem heretical to suggest this, but you might just use the entire F. powertrain. The sound and performance is absolutely glorious. Just grind the F-word off the castings and tell people it's a very rare Cosworth prototype. :)"

Thanks for making me laugh Alan, and for the info. You're right, nothing sounds as good as a Ferrari, esp. in a tunnel!
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
You're right, nothing sounds as good as a Ferrari, esp. in a tunnel!

Well...the beauty of an FE is you don't even need the tunnel... The first time I fired mine up I nearly jumped out of my skin....

BTW, in all seriousness, you might give some thought to having Lee Holman build you a T-44. (704) 583-2888. I don't much see the point of more than 4 speeds behind a motor like that, and you sure wouldn't have to worry about durability.
 
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