Americas Cup

[Keith]

Hell of a comeback. Well done USA.

Hope Ellison makes all the team rich! Unfortunately,this means Ellison will likely field these boats again, so I don't believe there's a cat in hells chance there'll be a team from the UK at the next one..Still, we can still contribute some World Class sailors..

 

[Chris E]

Highlights on BBC2 tonight (Wednesday ) at 11.50

 

[Jim Craik]

WELL DONE TO ALL!

This has been an incredable event.

The City was at its best, the sailers gave it everything, the boats were fast and the sailing close.

But most of all I want to thank our friends from New Zealand for making this such a great event. I have lived my whole life here in the Bay Area, yet I was also pulling for the Kiwis.

You guys have come away as winners in my book, a real class act, thanks.

 

[zollis]

Well done Team USA Oricale. An incredible return from being far behind.






Z.C.

 

[Pat]

Does anyone have any detail as to what they did to so dramatically improve the boat speed? All I have been able to find is reference to more "down-bow" trim and of course the addition of tactician Ben Ainslie.

 

[Doc Kaler]

I believe that changing the trim to more "bow down" will move the CG forward and decrease the amount of lead between CE of the sailplan and the CG of the vessel. It would affect the wetted surface area (not useful while up on the foils but may prove helpful during slower tacks with the hulls in the water.

 

[Keith]

The TV coverage throughout was fantastic and what was more interesting was not the detail they put in but the detail they left out. The coverage made it look quite simple and alluded to the fact that pure boat speed made up the difference.

It's very nice to have boats speed advantage but given two identical boats and two similarly trained crews I cannot see that that was the whole story.

If you look at the published boat speeds, I did not see very much difference, in fact on many occasions, TNZ were actually sailing faster, but what I did notice is that after tacking, Oracle simply accelerated quicker by a significant margin, whilst TNZ was painfully slow to get up on the foils.

It was upwind that Oracle had the advantage and it is quite possible that superior reading of the wind shifts may have made a big difference although it would be nigh impossible to get that info in real time.

Much has been made of tide, but with little resistance from the foils, I don't believe that a tidal advantage/disadvantage told the whole story, but Oracle seemed to pick the faster side of the course every time. It wouldn't be apparent to the TV crew but there is always a favoured side of a course (wind shift, wind speed tide etc) and this is the path to success for sailors.

In summation: Oracle seemed to learn to sail the boat "looser" and therefore faster out of the tacks which is where all the big gains were made. In yacht racing, it is sometime true that you can give up a potential upwind territorial gain for pure boat speed by sailing slightly "off" the wind rather than trying for optimum pointing angle, and thus gain a territorial gain at the end of the leg albeit to leeward. Oracle may have ended up down to leeward of TNZ (technically behind) in the first leg, but superior tactics at the leeward gate really pulled them ahead.

In the old monohulls, it was the start that made the difference. These two skippers were very evenly matched in that respect, and with the sheer speed potential, made the start less of an issue as was traditionally the case.

1. Superior boat handling and acceleration out of the tacks.
2. Superior tactics on the course.

The "better boat speed" analogy is easy to digest but the real story is far more complex.

 

[Doc Kaler]

Keith,

I agree with yor summary. One additional effect of changing the lead between CE and CG is similar to vehicle dynamics in that you will induce "oversteer" in the boat thereby making tacks quicker. You do suffer from a stiffer helm as the boat will tend to want to "round up".

 

[Keith]

Inducing "oversteer" in a cat is a dangerous recipe but I suppose if you want to win you have to take risks.

I must be honest and applaud both crews for their handling skills - they made it look easy but cats can bite!

Digging the leeward hull in at speed = an extreme uh oh moment! :laugh:

Then, pitch pole....

Whatever, it was breathtaking stuff, and even though I am a traditionalist, I would really like to see these boats race again.

 

[Jim Craik]

Congratulations to the black cat with nine lives!

You know Keith, I agree, I thought these big cats on the bay would be a disaster, but I was wrong. They probably are to expensive and fragile, but boy were they spectacular!

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Exciting racing to be sure. I still wish the Kiwis had won it all, but they didn't lack for chances...

Anyway, well done Oracle, and hopefully there'll be more entrants in the next AC...

 

Kudos to Oracle. They were pretty sharp when it mattered most. Not a bad effort from the Kiwis though, on what was likely only a fifth of Oracle's budget.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

How many Americans were on the winning boat?

 

[Jack]

How many Americans were on the winning boat?

Well Pete, you asked for it:
This year's America's Cup, , had a truly international flavour.
The winning skipper is an Australian, his chief tactician is an Australian Olympic gold medallist and his helmsman a four-time gold medallist for Britain.
In all, there were seven Australians on the winning Oracle team, along with seven New Zealanders, and another born in New Zealand who calls Perth home.
Canada, the Netherlands, France, Italy and Antigua were all represented. In fact, there were just two Americans on the team and one of those was replaced late by Brit Sir Ben Ainslie.
On top of that, a New Zealand firm played a leading role in the design and construction of the Oracle boat.
Meet some of the crew.
James Spithill (Australia): Skipper
Born June 28, 1979
Spithill grew up sailing on Pittwater in Sydney and has now won the America's Cup as skipper twice, after claiming victory in the event in 2010 - which saw him become the youngest skipper to win the Cup.
He made his America's Cup debut in 1999 as a 19-year-old, skippering Young Australia.
He has twice been named Australian Male Yachtsman of the Year in 2005/06 and 2009/10.
Spithill was also part of the crew on Ragamuffin which finished third in the 1998 Sydney-to-Hobart race.
Tom Slingsby (Australia): Strategist/grinder
Born September 5, 1984
Slingsby is a six-time world champion in the Laser class, including a five-year run at the top, which saw him claim the number one ranking in.
But he is perhaps best known among most Australians as one of our few gold-medallists at the 2012 London Olympics.
In 2010, Slingsby was voted the International Sailing Federation’s Rolex World Sailor of the Year Award.
He joined the Oracle team in 2011 and is well-regarded for his ability to read the wind.
Ben Ainslie (Great Britain): Helmsman
Born February 5, 1977
Ainslie is one of the most decorated Olympic sailors of all time, having won medals at five consecutive Olympic Games, including gold at the past four.
he started sailing at the age of 11 in Cornwall, where he learned the importance of reading tides.
He is a 10-time world champion but this is his first America's Cup triumph.
In 2012, Ainslie was awarded a knighthood and was named ISAF World Sailor of the Year, becoming the only sailor to win the award four times.
He has been named British Yachtsman of the Year five times.
Darren Bundock (Australia): Coach/tactics
Born March 21, 1971
Bundock is a five-time world champion and is the only member of the Team Oracle crew that has done all his sailing on multi-hull boats.
He won two Olympic medals in Tornado class before that class was cut from the Olympics after 2008.
This is Bundock's first America's Cup campaign, having joined the US team in 2011, but sailing is well and truly in his blood.
He started sailing at eight years of age, when he crewed for his father on a Maricat 4.3 to win the NSW state championship.
Will McCarthy (Australia): Grinder
Born September 14, 1972
McCarthy has now won the America's Cup three times as a grinder - the most physically demanding job on a yacht.
He was also on board Nicorette, which won the 2000 Sydney-to-Hobart race.
Joe Newton (Australia): Trimmer
Born December 16, 1977
Newton grew up sailing in the tropical waters off Queensland.
After being introduced to match racing, he got the call up to join skipper Spithill onboard Young Australia for the 1999 America's Cup campaign.
The pair have teamed up numerous times over the years, including in the OneWorld Challenge in 2002/03.
As a team, they scored victories in the 2005 Match Racing World Championships , the 2005 Bermuda Gold Cup and the 2012 RC44 World Championship.
Sam Newton (Australia): Grinder
Born March 11, 1986
Newton grew up sailing in Sydney and joined the Oracle America's Cup team in 2011.
In 2008, he was a crew member on board Quest, which was the overall winner of the Sydney-to-Hobart.
He has also joined his father in an endurance car rally from London to Cape Town.
Kyle Langford (Australia): Trimmer/grinder
Born July 30, 1989
Langford also joined Team USA in 2011 and is the youngest of all the sailors in this year's competition.
His relationship with skipper Spithill also dates back a few years, with the pair teaming up in 2010 to win the RC 44 World Championship and RC 44 World Match Race championship.
Langford also won gold in the multihull class 2005 ISAF Youth World Championships.
He was voted Australian Youth Sailor of the Year in 2006.
Simon Daubney (New Zealand): Trimmer/grinder
Born July 17, 1959
Daubney is one of the most experienced match racers in grand prix sailing, having now been a part of five winning America's Cup campaigns.
His first victory came in 1995 as part of the Team New Zealand crew. He helped Team NZ repeat the feat in 2000.
Daubney then joined Swiss Team Alinghi, who won the next two Cups in 2003 and 2007.
He also helped Alinghi to the finals in the 2010 competition.
During his nine years with the Swiss team, he was responsible for recruitment, which required him travelling the globe in search of world-class sailors.
He was clearly suited to the role.
In 2010 he was inducted into the America's Cup Hall of Fame.
He has represented New Zealand at three Olympics and is an eight-time world champion.
He has also won 18 Grade 1 match race regattas.
Murray Jones (New Zealand): Trimmer/tactics
Born October 4, 1957
Jones has also now won five America's Cups and is a long-time team-mate of Daubney.
He is also a member of the America's Cup Hall of Fame, having been inducted in 2010 after winning four consecutive matches, including 20 of 22 races.
He is renowned for his revolutionary thinking and tactics and played a part in the design of the catamaran developed for this year's competition.
Kinley Fowler (NZ/Ireland/Australia)
Born November 28, 1987
Fowler, who was born in New Zealand and calls Perth home, is one of the least experienced on Team USA's crew but among the most dogged.
He raced alongside Ainslie in the Extreme Racing Series in 2011, before funding his own trip to Venice to help out on Oracle's shore team.
His short career has also seen Fowler claim second place in the 2009 Match Racing World Championship and third in the 2010 event.
He also notched up a third placing in the 2009 Sydney-to-Hobart.
Source: americascup.com
:shocked:

 

[Keith]

:shocked:

Phew!

Ainslie was never the helmsman on Oracle - he was Chief Tactician from Race 7 I think.

He may have been a helmsman on the 'B' team, but he didn't make the 'A' team until the races had started.

Now, can you please answer Pete's question - how many flaming Americans were there! (I can't possibly read all through that mate...it's Friday and I need my Hendricks)

 

[Larry L.]

Ref. post #114:

Lemme get this straight. An A/C boat can have crew members from all over the universe...but, as we've discussed before, its designer has to be a citizen of the country under whose flag it sails. :stunned:

'Makes PERFECT sense..................................not.

(I may need to join you in that Hendricks, Keith.)

 

[Keith]

Traditionally A/C is not a team or even a national sport. It was a yacht club and yacht owner sport between the Royal Yacht Squadron Cowes and the New York Yacht Club in, er, New York. It grew a bit since then probably down to Ted Turner.

That's how it began - the 'hands' nationality is always incidental.

 

[Jack]

Easy, just one!

 

[Larry L.]

^ Buzz killer...

 

[Jim Craik]

From 1870 until the 1970s, not only were the crews required to be from the Country represented, but the boat, sails and rigging needed to be built in that country as well.

As rigging and particularly sails became more specialized and advanved, other countries were at a distince disadvantage. In the 1970, they changed the rules to allow challangers to use Sails, rigging and crews from anywhere.

This did give smaller Countries and Countries without the latest sails and rigging constructors a chance.

We could go back to all boats, sails, rigging and crew from the Country of entry but that would severly limit not only the number of challangers but also severly limit their ability to be competitive.

I think in the modern world, that is an unworkable thought. It makes as much sense as requiring all Grand Prix cars, engins, drivers, designers and teams to be from the country of entry..........

A nice thought but........................

Now they are thinking about limiting just the sailors to the country of entry, that has a better chance of working, well see.