Charlie Farley
Supporter
Anyone producing convincing looking GT40 chassis?
- Thread starter trevorsummers
- Start date
I have experience with both the Safir MK V and the Superformance. The SPF chassis is much closer to the FAV/Abbey unit than the Safir. The Safir design was "simplified" by Len Bailey to allow fewer tools to be required. The roof was hand formed at one point by Autokraft and the sills and front structure are different and have fewer curves/compound shapes. I have some MK V chassis pictures that were taken in 1985 at my visit to the Safir Byfleet works, I will look for them.
The ERA and SAFIR tubs are both quite different from an original. Both design teams much simplfied their designs in order to produce them without alot of stampings and pressings. I have been to the ERA shop and seen tubs in the jig. Mostly folded steel pieces with no pressings to my knowledge. The Mark V is pretty much the same. There are several pics of the Mark V tubs in all the major GT40 books.
Both tubs are beautful works of design and engineering regardless of how close they look to an original.
and the SPF tub looks very close to an original since they used original design drawings to produce it.
Both tubs are beautful works of design and engineering regardless of how close they look to an original.
and the SPF tub looks very close to an original since they used original design drawings to produce it.
Andrew,
The question was is there a KIT that is close to the original. Your chassis is a work of art, but if I am not mistaken, it is not available in kit form (I wish it was, i would buy one!)where you are not spending 6 years chasing expensive, unobtainable parts all over the globe. I have seen ERA kits complete, and believe me, as impressive as all those holes and pressings are to the 1% of GT40 nuts like us, the other 99% of the population couldn't tell the difference.
Darnel
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Nice work Darnel, someone trying to pull this thread back to the original question.
So reading the posts 2 possible options seem to be emerging for the builder looking for a KIT whose chassis is more like an originals. The ERA seems very close to the untrained eye and the RCR's chassis general shape is close as well.
Charlie Farley
Supporter
I'm sorry if you thought i was was trying to deviate the point of the thread, far fom it. I was first, surprised at how far the ERA chassis was off from an original ( i had previously, from what i'd read, believed it was much closer to an original )
and secondly, offering the opportunity for someone to buy an RCR chassis and clad it , front end , in copies of the pressings in the front of my chassis. I don't think that is being selfish...
and secondly, offering the opportunity for someone to buy an RCR chassis and clad it , front end , in copies of the pressings in the front of my chassis. I don't think that is being selfish...
I don't know anything about the quality or reputation but
sportscar.se from Goran Olsson seems to be very close...
His response to a mail I send a some weeks ago.
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Hi Carlos! Yes we are still active and will update the webpage when 15 monocoques are delivered. That will be during the spring. 7 chassies are delivered and if you want to take a look you are welcome for a visit.
Best reg!
Goran
----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Heller"
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 7:42 PM
Goeran,
are you still active ? I have not seen any updates on your page recently ....so any references you can point me to ?
Cheers
Carlos
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Cheers
sportscar.se from Goran Olsson seems to be very close...
His response to a mail I send a some weeks ago.
//////////
Hi Carlos! Yes we are still active and will update the webpage when 15 monocoques are delivered. That will be during the spring. 7 chassies are delivered and if you want to take a look you are welcome for a visit.
Best reg!
Goran
----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Heller"
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 7:42 PM
Goeran,
are you still active ? I have not seen any updates on your page recently ....so any references you can point me to ?
Cheers
Carlos
/////////////
Cheers
Andrew, I am not having a go at anyone. You make some valid points about the ERA but as a kit it seems to offer the most authentic looking chassis. That's not to say its a perfect carbon copy but that seems to be the point that there are no kit manufacturers producing a carbon copy chassis. This could well be down to cost of producing the complex shape of the original.
Good find Carlos, that's another nice looking chassis. Do they supply a full kit then or just a few parts? Also any ideas on the cost of one of their kits?
( even cowing they haven't been the stiffest one )Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
That doesn't look anything like an original GT40 monocoque. It would be interesting to take some dimensions and see if any of them match up. I recall them advertising that their cars have significant homology with originals. As Maxwell Smart would have said, "frankly, I find that hard to believe...."
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
I have seen all of these chassis up close and personal, as well as original cars, and also Tennant Panels chassis. The Safir Mark V chassis is dimensionally very close to an original Abbey Panels chassis, but constructed essentially of folded flat stock, which was done deliberately to make it easier to build. Small order metal stamping companies such as Abbey and Tennant were no longer in business by the time Peter Thorp wanted to build GT40s, as I understand it, and the cost of replicating the tooling to build original chassis would have been far too much for the number of cars to be built. Len Bailey was asked to refine the design of the tub so that it would be easier to build from flat steel sheet, and much of a Safir tub is built exactly that way. There are curved parts done from pressings, but not nearly as many pressed parts as are in an original chassis.
According to Ronnie Spain, a David Brown chassis (and full disclosure, this is what I have, so I am partial to it) is closer to an original Abbey tub than anything else. Ronnie has seen the Gelscoe cars; I don't know if he has seen the Mirage and Gox chassis or not. I have not seen a Mirage tub in person, but all the photos I have seen show that it must be very close indeed to an original at least in the way it is constructed. I don't know how dimensionally accurate it is.
An ERA tub does not look like an original chassis. It may be a quality piece of work, but it is not similar to an original Abbey tub. If it looks like anything, it looks like a Mark V tub, but I have not been able to compare them directly.
A GT40 original-design chassis is a very complicated piece of fabrication and welding. With large metal presses and jig welding, Abbey Panels were able to make them up rather quickly, but without that technology available, it takes quite a bit longer.
I have seen a couple of SPF cars, including one next to mine. The SPF chassis seems very close, to me, to the chassis in my car. I have not had the opportunity to compare an SPF chassis to an original Abbey Panels chassis.
According to Ronnie Spain, a David Brown chassis (and full disclosure, this is what I have, so I am partial to it) is closer to an original Abbey tub than anything else. Ronnie has seen the Gelscoe cars; I don't know if he has seen the Mirage and Gox chassis or not. I have not seen a Mirage tub in person, but all the photos I have seen show that it must be very close indeed to an original at least in the way it is constructed. I don't know how dimensionally accurate it is.
An ERA tub does not look like an original chassis. It may be a quality piece of work, but it is not similar to an original Abbey tub. If it looks like anything, it looks like a Mark V tub, but I have not been able to compare them directly.
A GT40 original-design chassis is a very complicated piece of fabrication and welding. With large metal presses and jig welding, Abbey Panels were able to make them up rather quickly, but without that technology available, it takes quite a bit longer.
I have seen a couple of SPF cars, including one next to mine. The SPF chassis seems very close, to me, to the chassis in my car. I have not had the opportunity to compare an SPF chassis to an original Abbey Panels chassis.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Trev, the ERA chassis does not look much at all like an original. An SPF car would be a far better bet on that- not to say that the ERA isn't a good car, I've only ridden in one and it seemed fine to me, but their chassis isn't even close to resembling an original chassis.
Hi Jim, thanks for the reply
Are you refering to the GOX chassis not looking like an original?
Secondly i agree that the ERA isn't an accurate replica chassis and neither is the RCR. Both i guess could be classed as a lookalike rather than a replica, they both retain a similar shape to the originals and both are offered in kit form which is something i am looking for.
Up from this you have GOX, Dave brown, mirage, Gelscoe and SPF that offer more correct replica chassis' with variations in accuracy
If money was no object i said Gelscoe would get an order in a flash but the cost would be too much for me. I could look a GOX/Dave Brown but they are not in kit form so would require a heavy amount of time and fabrication skills to finish, something i don't have.
Next down the list is Superformance. Very nice cars which I would love to own but again price is an issue as I dont have the funds to be able to buy a car outright which is why I started building my Tornado. If Superformance sold in kit form, I'd have an order in for a chassis tomorrow as they are nice cars, tick most of the boxes for the builder looking for an authentic car and could supply all the parts for a build.
However Superformance don't offer kits so that leaves ERA and RCR. Both chassis retain the general shape of the GT40 but lack the detail. But crucially both can be bought as kits.
Is that a fair summary of various offerings?
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Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Yes. I have not seen the GOX tub but the photos I have seen on this forum look promising.
There are deals out there on SPF cars. Recall that their efforts were begun in better economic times, and that if you keep your eyes open and search diligently, you may find one already out there at a substantial discount. I know of at least one that sold in just those circumstances, although this was a year or two ago. But they do exist occasionally.
I think SPF cars are quite well done, and if they had existed when I began looking for a GT40, I would have bought one and saved myself ten years and more money than I care to think about. They are also the only manufacturer who even bothered to approach Safir et al for licensing and approval, for which I commend SPF a great deal. No one else even cared who the shape and name belonged to, or bothered to find out if it indeed belonged to anyone at all. That is worthy of regard in my book.
There are deals out there on SPF cars. Recall that their efforts were begun in better economic times, and that if you keep your eyes open and search diligently, you may find one already out there at a substantial discount. I know of at least one that sold in just those circumstances, although this was a year or two ago. But they do exist occasionally.
I think SPF cars are quite well done, and if they had existed when I began looking for a GT40, I would have bought one and saved myself ten years and more money than I care to think about. They are also the only manufacturer who even bothered to approach Safir et al for licensing and approval, for which I commend SPF a great deal. No one else even cared who the shape and name belonged to, or bothered to find out if it indeed belonged to anyone at all. That is worthy of regard in my book.
