ARE dry sumps

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Thanks Lynn -

You put it well. I am not much of a diplomat.

I am surprised that the Antipodeans would dare even mention that jerk figures that it was Harley guy who did. :)


If you are talking about the Logan I think you are he is Irish.

Lynn Larsen

Lynn Larsen
Not political, but regional, it is well known in the Antipodes that QC in America is poor.

Your statement that prompted my post calling into question your characterization of Americans.


With respect, I think you are gunning for the wrong guy here.

So, I am not intelligent enough to know who I am talking about.

I didn't bring up the regional issue, and if you want to talk about measured responses, I didn't use words like "ass" and "dumbass" to describe anyone.

I didn't inject myself into the focus of the debate as it seemed you were doing OK on your own. Indeed, I don't agree with the tactics, but there was a valid point at the core of Pat's argument. I just think that the part was bad enough that any explanation would not be adequate. That said, at least Pat only became aggressive with a single person (you) and did not vilify a whole nation.

I stick to plain facts to make my case.

So, I suppose that, at least as far as you see it, poor quality control in the United States is a plain fact and you have nothing to apologize to anyone about. I am quite insulted by this and it makes absolutely no difference what the original issue was, nor does the validity of the arguments. The fact that you believe that the entire population of my nation are slackers and substandard by your estimation tells me that you are a bigoted, small minded person with deep seated psychological issues with whom I'll waste no more of my time.


Russ Noble

GT40s Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Good idea Bill, all my replies that Lynn has taken offence to, have only been in answer to attacks and denigration already launched.

If someone wants to start a thread about experiences with regional QC eg US/ China/UK/Australasia/Asia/Europe etc that could be a most informative exercise.

Maybe it should be done in The Paddock, where people who don't like the facts can feel free throw in a few personal attacks also.

Let's get the crap off this thread. If anyone wants to pursue it elsewhere, fine. I will ignore any further irrelevant comments on this thread

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We've been invited to bring our Can Am cars over to NZ next year in Feb.
along with the Historic Can Am association.
Having just returned from the UK, I am just realizing the anti-american sentiment that is so popular today around the world.
I'm sure we did something to deserve it, but you have to realize that the combination of the Can Am trip and the retaliation for the anti american feelings is finding its way into the little micro niches of the car hobby. We sent you that pan on purpose, so that you will have to waste valuable time and resources trying to make it work when you could be practicing driving in order to beat us in Feb.
I have read this forum for a couple of years but did not join until recently. This is my first post but couldn't hold back. I don't blame Russ for raising hell about the quality of the ARE sump. It truly looks like garbage. Altough any manufacturer can have an occasional problem this is not a mass produced item. Don't they have a quality check of some kind throughout the building process? Who inspected the item before it was shipped? I don't think this sump would have been shipped to one of their big time winners. I don't think it was shipped to Russ because he's way south. My experience with similar matters tells me that they are not as concerned with us little guys and its probably taking time away from what they feel like is a possible large order from pro race teams.

Russ - I'm amazed at the amount of fabrication you have done and done very well to tell the truth. I thought I was pretty good at cobbling up some pieces for various cars that I have built but you have got me beat easily.

Dale in okla

Russ Noble

GT40s Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Johan, we're off topic again!!

But thanks. I hope you make it to SFOS in Feb. A truly wonderful series of meetings. You'll be pleased to know that a Lola Mk3b holds the lap record at Ruapuna for the Sports/GT class! By the time you get here I hope a GT40 will hold that!

I hope to meet you in Feb, we may get to go wheel to wheel also.

My facilities and contacts are at your disposal, should you require them.

BTW with regard to QC I was not expressing anti American sentiment as I have lots of great friends in the States. We have QC problems out of China too, I am not anti Chinese either. My best mate is Chinese! It's amazing how someone can turn an observation on QC into a nationalistic/patriotic issue!

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Russ Noble

GT40s Supporter
Lifetime Supporter

Just a quick wrap up on this saga.

Ali Grey on this forum had to go Stateside and offered to take the pan back with him in his suitcase and post it to ARE when he arrived. This has saved quite a bit of time and a not inconsiderable freight bill. Thanks Ali.

Gary Armstrong on receipt of the pan immediately made a full refund to my card AND ALSO refunded the freight cost to my assembly point in the States. Realistically, one probably couldn't ask for better than that.

I have to thank Gary for the action he has taken, and the guys on this forum who helped with advice etc.

I just wish the situation hadn't arisen in the first place.


Randy V

Staff member
Lifetime Supporter
Thanks for posting your update Russ.. I hope that they examined this pan carefully and made changes to their process so it doesn't happen again...
I stumbled onto this thread while browsing and, although I'm a bit late, I have what I believe to be relevant info. First, I believe that the pan in that picture is one of two pans sent to me a year or so ago. Yes, I am saying it is the EXACT SAME PAN that was in my shop in Alabama. I was told by Gary Armstrong at the time that they were the only 2 of that model in existence and that he wasn't making any more (for obvious reasons). When I received the first pan, I took a pic identical to the one posted here, although it was lost forever in my recent laptop disaster. When I called Gary about it, he was very apologetic and asked me to send it back and he would send me another. The second one fit worse than the first. When I called again, he was again the nicest guy you'd ever want to talk to, and explained that he didn't have a good mold for the 351 pan and was trying to get his hand on a block so he could make a new mold. I sent that one back, too.

Now let me stop right here and interject some commentary. This guy ain't no dummy. He knew this stuff was shit, but sent it anyway. Think about this...he sells "thousands of pans" to all kinds of deep pocket motorsports teams, but yet he can't afford to buy a friggin' Ford Motorsport block to make some molds by??? Hell, he could then sell the block on one of the myriad of Mustang or Ford forums and not been out more than a couple hundred.

After it was all said and done, I didn't make a track day that I had already paid for ($600 non refundable) and was out a couple of overnight shipping charges. In exchange for my trouble, Gary offered to hook my brother up with a smokin' deal on a complete drysump setup for his C5 Corvette Z06, when he got ready for it. Fast forward 6 months and we called to order the dry sump. Gary gave us a price that was identical to the price given to a local speed shop for the same setup for my friend's Corvette. Some deal.

Why would we take a chance on another pan from this company??? I feel dumb saying this now, but we ASSumed that if LGM and ALMS guys were using it, it must be good. WRONG!
The Corvette pan fit alot better than mine, but I would give it a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10.
You shouldn't have to modify a piece this expensive to get it to fit.

Short story, avoid ARE if possible. I'm not sure if I'd call this guy a liar or a cheat, but something is just not right.

BTW, the pan I got from Armando was shit, as well...and was 3 weeks late being delivered...and cost me $162.00 in Saturday delivery air freight to keep from missing another prepaid track day.

If you want a good pan, check out Billet Fabrication Specialties. Jeff's stuff is top notch.

Russ Noble

GT40s Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Must have missed this post earlier in the pre Christmas madness.

Certainly puts a new perspective on this saga and supports my original hypothesis.

They wanted the sump back! I wonder where it is now?

In light of the new information, whereby the pan had previously been returned as unusable, I wonder why they didn't suggest that I just put a sledgehammer through it? And send them photos of the destroyed item to save the hassle, inconvenience and cost of return.

Ah well......
I guess this is a goooood example of what someone can do to prevent the loss of $$$ & time. Use this section and save yourself alot of $$$ and time.

Simple deal, huh? ......and best yet.......its free to use!