Audi 016 Transaxle Issue

[Strobe]

Gents
Have a CAV with 016 Audi box, recently I have been having issues engaging gears having to double clutch at the lights to engage. There is no real issue whilst running along street and changing.
Have also noticed that on start in neutral a slight movement on the car like viscous fluid drag. Also I seen some issue in neutral where if I try to push the car there is some additional resistance in the power train.
Took off box and inspected clutch, no apparent issues with system.
The box however, it is hard to engage into certain gears and takes some movement of the shafts to complete, once engaged some of the gears the input shaft/output shafts are turning freely, other engagements, the system takes up some play but locks in either direction.

Any ideas what may be going on before I start stripping it? Selector shaft system or syncro/cones???

One thing that has plagued me last year was a period where I had some sealing issues and an oil leak causing some clutch slip and replacement. Possibly attributing to some wear perhaps?

Cheers
Stephen

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

Sounds like an input shaft pilot bearing failure / issue ??

 

[Strobe]

Not sure if the input shaft is supposed to move axially at all. When I pull the selector shaft and move left or right to attempt to engage in overdrive or reverse the input shaft actually moves slightly axially in opposite directions respectively. When this occurs I cant actually get engage. However when I do engage a gear, the shaft is not moving at all.

Many thanks for your input

Stephen

 

[Cliff Beer]

Strobe, are you sure it's not something simple like just the linkage wearing and getting out of adjustment? I had similar problem when I bought my CAV (with 016) and I spent a couple hours adjusting and improving the linkage actuation at the gearbox...made a world of difference.

I've had a few 016 and there's typically a bit of axial movement at the input shaft. It's a (non-tapered) roller bearing there if I'm remembering correctly so it's going to have some some axial movement.

Incidentally, what's the ratio code on your 016? I recently swapped out my 016 for one with better ratios, and also installed an LSD and a strengthening plate at the same time. Wasn't too tough doing either of those things.

 

[Pat]

I'm sure you've done this but is the trans fluid full? That could cause what you describe.

 

[Chris Coote]

Sounds like you are running out of slave cylinder stroke.Was possibly on its limits when clutch new and with minor wear is now at end of stroke and not releasing clutch plate sufficiently.Remove slave cylinder and cut down a high tensile bolt or similar so it is approx say 5-6mm longer than the Audi slave cylinder push rod.Cheers

 

[Erik]

Sounds a bit like clutch drag to me, which is to say that the clutch is not fully disengaging and dragging a bit on the flywheel, keeping the shafts slightly in motion, which will lead to premature synchronizer wear, and may if bad enough, keep the car slightly in motion, which is what you describe here. I agree with Chris on this one, check to see if you are getting enough throw on the slave cylinder for full disengagement and if not, fix that and go from there. Hopefully the synchros are not completely glassed out already and you will not need a rebuild, but this is certainly a possiblity now too unfortunately.

Hope that this helps,

Erik Johnson
GBox LLC
(303) 440-8899

 

[Scott]

Your clutch is dragging.

 

[Strobe]

Finally got the rear end off the box, the rear thrust bearing cages both sides had three cracks. Race turning but not smoothly. Ordered a replacement. Also the spigot has lost a couple of needles into the crank recess. (possibly when pulling the box off).

I can see some hydraulic grease getting hammered in my near future

I am thinking of getting a Oillite bronze replacement made up instead.

Not sure if what's caused what here.

Thanks gents

 

[Cliff Beer]

Strobe, as Scott suggests above, it sounds like your clutch is dragging due to failure to fully disengage.

I had symptoms similar to yours, and I just replaced both the clutch master and slave...et viola, no more problems.

 

[Strobe]

Cliff
I have a new slave and will get it assemled. Fingers crossed
Thanks
Steve

 

[Strobe]

Guys

Still having fun with my gearbox. I changed out the rear bearing on my input shaft as the cage had fractured in a couple of places.

Since I put it back together and re-installed, the 3rd gear keeps jumping out. This seems not to be a linkage tension issue as I have made adjustments to confirm.
My thoughts are perhaps I have dislodged one of the sprung detent pistons to add resistance. I see these detents seem not accessible without splitting the box and extracting the input shaft. Anyone got experience with this box and can help guide me in this endeavor.

Much Thanks

 

[Jim Cowden]

You may have to much end float in the shaft and this can cause it to pull out of gear.
You may need to check yourself as you have had the back of to change the bearing.
The end float is generaly adjusted via shims under the bearing outer cone.
When replacing a bearing put back what you took out you will generaly be fine.

Jim

 

[Scott]

If there is longitudinal movement of the main shaft this can cause disengagement of third gear, however the mainshaft would have to move towards the engine considerably for this to happen.

The detents can also be bad, but they are accessible via the head bolts on the center case.

 

[Strobe]

Scott,

Checked both the headbolts and it behind them are no detents and springs. Looking at the diagram attached it looks like the sprung detents are spring first and on other side of the selector? and not accessible from the headbolts. If this is not the case then I have no Detents in the recess.
I am confused!

Cheers
Steve

 

[Richard]

Steve, Where can I get a copy of the manual that diagram is from? I have an 016 and think it would be nice to have something like that in the files. Thanks Richard

 

[Scott]

Scott,

Checked both the headbolts and it behind them are no detents and springs. Looking at the diagram attached it looks like the sprung detents are spring first and on other side of the selector? and not accessible from the headbolts. If this is not the case then I have no Detents in the recess.
I am confused!

Cheers
Steve

Detents go against the shift shafts, the spring follow and then the screw caps. in that illustration it shows the spring -> detent -> cap.

If you don't have detents that there is your problem.

 

[Strobe]

Scotty
Thanks, was quite confused with the diagram. As for the missing detents, I did not have an issue with gear disengagement prior to me splitting the box. I did not disassemble the middle case, only removed the rear bearing case. I wonder if it possible the detents went into the casing somehow?

Scotty any availability on detents and springs for this box in CC buddy?

Thanks
Steve

 

[Cliff Beer]

You're going to want to find those detents if they somehow slipped into the middle case....

 

[Strobe]

Cheers Cliff, I will be pulling the box. Cannot see how they escape into the case there is very little clearance, I believe that they were missing from the start. Can't take that chance though, so off she comes again!