Build Diary - RCR Lola T70 Spider
- Thread starter Ron Earp
- Start date
Ron Earp
Admin
Jeff brought the car back over to my place today with the finished cage. The cage looks much better in person and much better with the body on.
The body isn't aligned at all in these phtos, but the cage isn't nearly as tall as I thought it would be. And the side forward down tubes aren't too bad. They are required for racing so there isn't any way around that. Once we're done racing the car we can cut them off, grind down the stubs, and we'll have a great street Lola with an extremely safe structure.
Chris did a great job with the side bars that protrude outward over the sponsons and into the door. The rear section is setup so it can be unhinged and will pivot back with the rear deck. And I really like the section on the rear he built for the pivoting and to tie the shock towers together, very nice.
If anyone needs a cage done for an RCR car Chris Schimmel at Competition Cages will handle it for you. This cage cost $2400 and I think was a good bargain for the amount of design work and time he had to put into it. As mentioned earlier the cage is built to 2008 rules and I hope to be in a position to get a log book for in in January. Happy to have the car back home and I'm making a list for what we need to do on it so that we can turn it into a driving go cart. I don't think it'll be that hard to do at all once we have all the parts in hand.
Getting excited now!
The body isn't aligned at all in these phtos, but the cage isn't nearly as tall as I thought it would be. And the side forward down tubes aren't too bad. They are required for racing so there isn't any way around that. Once we're done racing the car we can cut them off, grind down the stubs, and we'll have a great street Lola with an extremely safe structure.
Chris did a great job with the side bars that protrude outward over the sponsons and into the door. The rear section is setup so it can be unhinged and will pivot back with the rear deck. And I really like the section on the rear he built for the pivoting and to tie the shock towers together, very nice.
If anyone needs a cage done for an RCR car Chris Schimmel at Competition Cages will handle it for you. This cage cost $2400 and I think was a good bargain for the amount of design work and time he had to put into it. As mentioned earlier the cage is built to 2008 rules and I hope to be in a position to get a log book for in in January. Happy to have the car back home and I'm making a list for what we need to do on it so that we can turn it into a driving go cart. I don't think it'll be that hard to do at all once we have all the parts in hand.
Getting excited now!
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That cage looks great. That had to take some time to put together.
SCCA legal ,
that is a great thing.....nice work.
I cant wait to see you dialing it in on the track...
that is a great thing.....nice work.
I cant wait to see you dialing it in on the track...
Seems to me that the relatively thick sponsons on the RCR would offer substantial protection from a side impact. Old sports racers had .042 to .063 sheet monocoque that wouuld have (and often did) folded up like paper in an accident, Fran's chassis is awfully robust, and if you did a decent set of well supported hoops front and rear, that would be a pretty safe place to sit....
It is a shame that you have to add that much extra baggage (both from a weight and inconvenience for a street car) to put all the side protection in there. I am all for the well supported hoops, but if you think about all the added weight and the hassle of climbing in and out, you have to think that if you want a dual purpose car, starting with a cage (substantial tube frame/cage) and adding sheet would have been cleaner than starting with a monocoque....
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I am thinking there is a lesson in there...
It is a shame that you have to add that much extra baggage (both from a weight and inconvenience for a street car) to put all the side protection in there. I am all for the well supported hoops, but if you think about all the added weight and the hassle of climbing in and out, you have to think that if you want a dual purpose car, starting with a cage (substantial tube frame/cage) and adding sheet would have been cleaner than starting with a monocoque....
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I am thinking there is a lesson in there...
Regardless of tube or mono chassis ...the SCCA rules dictate that you must have every tube that Ron has included in his cage...no exceptions..
Rules is Rules unfortunately...
An SCCA legal race car would not make great street car, although it may be usable.
In my opinion its impossible to have a no compromise race car/bike be a fun road tool...they are far too specialised..and if you make those kind of compromises to be streetable then it really would be uncompetitive as a race machine...
Race is just that race...street is street...sorry for the ramble
Rules is Rules unfortunately...
An SCCA legal race car would not make great street car, although it may be usable.
In my opinion its impossible to have a no compromise race car/bike be a fun road tool...they are far too specialised..and if you make those kind of compromises to be streetable then it really would be uncompetitive as a race machine...
Race is just that race...street is street...sorry for the ramble
Very nice Ron, looking forward to more build photos.
Cheers
Fred W B
Cheers
Fred W B
Ron Earp
Admin
Hey Manny,
I'm not sure I would have done much different for a track car (not race) except one thing - the down tubes from the rear to front bar. Those are unattractive and there is no way around that. They can be easily removed for full street/track car conversion though.
The rest of it I'd have had in a car no matter what if I planned to drive it at speed. And indeed, many clubs that do track days, such as BMW and Porsche clubs, are requiring supported roll bar protection for open top cars. And the little pop up factory bits on the BMW roadsters or Porsche roadsters aren't counting I'm told from our local club publication.
Weight wise I'm okay with a bit more, this thing is extremely light. I'll calculate how much weight we added for folks that are interested. In fact I think Chris already knows because he knows how much tubing he used and weighed the other bits before install. Clearly a zero weight cage would be ideal, but we know that is impossible no matter what kind of car you build.
I don't think we'll have a great street car here but that isn't the ultimate goal. It'd be nice to have a tagged and titled car though to facilitate going to a car show, alignment shop, or to debug something.
I've got about a weeks worth of house honey dos to knock out and then I can work on the car. Making the list right now to be approved by the Minister of Domestic Affairs......
I'm not sure I would have done much different for a track car (not race) except one thing - the down tubes from the rear to front bar. Those are unattractive and there is no way around that. They can be easily removed for full street/track car conversion though.
The rest of it I'd have had in a car no matter what if I planned to drive it at speed. And indeed, many clubs that do track days, such as BMW and Porsche clubs, are requiring supported roll bar protection for open top cars. And the little pop up factory bits on the BMW roadsters or Porsche roadsters aren't counting I'm told from our local club publication.
Weight wise I'm okay with a bit more, this thing is extremely light. I'll calculate how much weight we added for folks that are interested. In fact I think Chris already knows because he knows how much tubing he used and weighed the other bits before install. Clearly a zero weight cage would be ideal, but we know that is impossible no matter what kind of car you build.
I don't think we'll have a great street car here but that isn't the ultimate goal. It'd be nice to have a tagged and titled car though to facilitate going to a car show, alignment shop, or to debug something.
I've got about a weeks worth of house honey dos to knock out and then I can work on the car. Making the list right now to be approved by the Minister of Domestic Affairs......
Ron,
That cage looks even better now I see it in proper light. Very comprehensive. I can't remember from when I sat in the car just how close a helmet would get to your favoured foward running down tubes. On the Prosport I have exactly the same tubes. However here you have to cover the tubes near a helmet with an FIA specific foam tube so that if/when a helmet bangs it in an accident, the helmet doesn't hit metal so cracking it. The foam is denser than pipe insulation and just zip ties into place. We also had it in the 993 on the cage bars by the drivers head there. The other requirement that would be expected in a car like this with the seats I saw is a head rest. Again this is to prevent the helmet hitting any part of the roll cage as well as whip lash.
Have fun with the honey do list!
That cage looks even better now I see it in proper light. Very comprehensive. I can't remember from when I sat in the car just how close a helmet would get to your favoured foward running down tubes. On the Prosport I have exactly the same tubes. However here you have to cover the tubes near a helmet with an FIA specific foam tube so that if/when a helmet bangs it in an accident, the helmet doesn't hit metal so cracking it. The foam is denser than pipe insulation and just zip ties into place. We also had it in the 993 on the cage bars by the drivers head there. The other requirement that would be expected in a car like this with the seats I saw is a head rest. Again this is to prevent the helmet hitting any part of the roll cage as well as whip lash.
Have fun with the honey do list!
Ron Earp
Admin
One person recently emailed me about a SCCA class for kit cars in reference to the Lola. I’m not aware of such a thing, but my tech inspector is aware of an ITO/ITU class that might be a catch for “kit cars”, but that isn’t the primary purpose. It has been billed to the regions as “kit car friendly”. I’m interested in it because it appears that SPO is no longer a VIR 13 Hour Enduro class (it was in 2004, 2005, 2006). So, we don’t want the Lola logbooked as SPO>
ITO/ITU has the following important rules:
1. All cars shall meet or exceed current safety standards in the ITCS (9.1.3.D 10).
2. Fuel cells, weld in roll cages, fire systems, and NASCAR style door bars are recommended.
3. All cars shall run on D.O.T. approved tires unless otherwise using a spec tire for their particular Touring type series.
4. Unless listed below, tube frame race cars are not eligible for ITO/ITU.
5. Competition vehicles from the following Touring type series are allowed to compete in ITO:
SCCA World Challenge GT
American V-8 Supercar Series
BMWCCA H thru I Stock/Prepared
Corvette Challenge
Ferrari Challenge
GrandAm GS
IMSA Firehawk GrandSport
NASA American Iron
NASA Camaro/Mustang Challenge
PCA A thru F Stock
Touring Corvette Challenge (TCC)
Viper Racing League
One point though is that tube frame cars are not allowed in ITO/ITU.
With all the inclusions from World Challenge to Viper Racing League there can be some serious machines in there!!! I think we’d be okay but we’ve heard rumors of a team bringing a World Challenge Caddy for next year’s race.
Fun in bodywork? What fun?
M, SFI padding you'll find on the car when done. The Miata you drove had it too in areas, it is required for reasons you state.
R
ITO/ITU has the following important rules:
1. All cars shall meet or exceed current safety standards in the ITCS (9.1.3.D 10).
2. Fuel cells, weld in roll cages, fire systems, and NASCAR style door bars are recommended.
3. All cars shall run on D.O.T. approved tires unless otherwise using a spec tire for their particular Touring type series.
4. Unless listed below, tube frame race cars are not eligible for ITO/ITU.
5. Competition vehicles from the following Touring type series are allowed to compete in ITO:
SCCA World Challenge GT
American V-8 Supercar Series
BMWCCA H thru I Stock/Prepared
Corvette Challenge
Ferrari Challenge
GrandAm GS
IMSA Firehawk GrandSport
NASA American Iron
NASA Camaro/Mustang Challenge
PCA A thru F Stock
Touring Corvette Challenge (TCC)
Viper Racing League
One point though is that tube frame cars are not allowed in ITO/ITU.
With all the inclusions from World Challenge to Viper Racing League there can be some serious machines in there!!! I think we’d be okay but we’ve heard rumors of a team bringing a World Challenge Caddy for next year’s race.
Fun in bodywork? What fun?
M, SFI padding you'll find on the car when done. The Miata you drove had it too in areas, it is required for reasons you state.
R
Ron McCall
Supporter
Ron,
I was noticing your mechanical fuel gauge and there is a small square plate in front of it .What is that for ? Did it come with the gauge? Have you filled the tank and tried it out?
I was noticing your mechanical fuel gauge and there is a small square plate in front of it .What is that for ? Did it come with the gauge? Have you filled the tank and tried it out?
Chris Kouba
Supporter
Ron,
Your post caught my eye and I started doing a little poking around. What I ran across is that ITU/O appears to be an Atlanta Region only class. Everywhere else it seems like ITE is the catch all, but I haven't seen much documentation regarding specifics.
Your post caught my eye and I started doing a little poking around. What I ran across is that ITU/O appears to be an Atlanta Region only class. Everywhere else it seems like ITE is the catch all, but I haven't seen much documentation regarding specifics.
Ron Earp
Admin
I was not familiar with it either but apparently it is coming to my region. It is here in fact, the ECR a couple of weekends ago had some ITO cars in it.
My tech inspector that has been involved with the Lola project mentioned it to me at VIR a few weeks back. The original plan was to go SPO, but SPO for some reason or another was not run in the 13 Hour Enduro this year. ITO was though.
ITE is a catch all but I don't think the Lola could get classed in ITE. In the end I don't much mind what it gets called, just as long as it can run in the enduro and the tech inspector feels the same.
Ron
Ron - I would make sure you have a talk with your SCCA Regional Executive and Chief of Tech to make 100% sure of this class.
I'm on the board of directors (Assistant R.E. right now) for a large SCCA Region.
On a Regional Level we still accept ITE but have not yet embraced any other "Regionally administered" classes.
With SP - you're pretty safe as it is a Nationally administered "Regional Competition" class and we as regions don't really have a say in whether or not we run the class in our regional events.
((but))
Cars that run in SPx (SPU or SPO) are required to pass the SCCA spec within the GTCS for any of the GT specifications / classes.. The GT Spec is very stringent. The key thing that knocks most cars out of the running is the roll-cage spec..
The only way the Lola would be recognized in the ITE class (in our region) is if your car fit into another class within another professional sanctioning body ((and)) it passed the "ITCS" specs in the SCCA's rule book. So in other words if your car was legal for NASA ST1, it could run in ITE here..
http://www.scca.com/documents/Club Rules/GCR2007.pdf
I'm on the board of directors (Assistant R.E. right now) for a large SCCA Region.
On a Regional Level we still accept ITE but have not yet embraced any other "Regionally administered" classes.
With SP - you're pretty safe as it is a Nationally administered "Regional Competition" class and we as regions don't really have a say in whether or not we run the class in our regional events.
((but))
Cars that run in SPx (SPU or SPO) are required to pass the SCCA spec within the GTCS for any of the GT specifications / classes.. The GT Spec is very stringent. The key thing that knocks most cars out of the running is the roll-cage spec..
The only way the Lola would be recognized in the ITE class (in our region) is if your car fit into another class within another professional sanctioning body ((and)) it passed the "ITCS" specs in the SCCA's rule book. So in other words if your car was legal for NASA ST1, it could run in ITE here..
http://www.scca.com/documents/Club Rules/GCR2007.pdf
Ron Earp
Admin
Hey Randy,
I've we have consulted with the Chief Tech in our region and our local tech inspector. It has been agreed the car would meet SPO specifications based on the current design of cage. If SPO will be included in the next 13 hour (RE is checking on this now, issue has been brought up) then SPO will be fine for the car. We went with GT cage specifications which meshes well with IT specs for 2008.
Depending on the Steward the car could be placed in ITE except for one thing:
"Cars eligible for ITE are production based cars with fenders and doors that are not currently eligible for any other SCCA club racing class. Cars entered in ITE must meet minimum safety standards of the GCR and Improved Touring Category Specifications, including all items in Section 17, GCR and Section 10, ITCS. Suitability of any car for ITE is subject to the approval of the Chief Steward and Chief Scrutineer."
But, ITE has a 3L displacement limit. No ITE.
ITO solves the 3L issue:
"Southeast Division Recognized Classes for 2008
ITO
Established as a SEDiv Class beginning for the 2008 race season, July 2007
Purpose and Intent
Also know as ITE in many parts of the country, this class will allow cars that are not
currently listed, allowed, or otherwise exceed the IT class preparation rules in the General
Competition Rules. Entrants will not be guaranteed the competitiveness of any car.
Automobiles:
1. All cars shall meet or exceed current safety standards in the Improved Touring Category Specifications of the General Competition Rules. The GCR and IT specifications shall apply where not specifically stated
2. Fuel cells, weld in roll cages, fire systems, and NASCAR style door bars are recommended
3. All cars shall run on DOT. approved tires unless otherwise using a spec tire for their particular touring type series
4. Unless otherwise classified, vehicles with normally aspirated engines greater than 3000 cc will compete in IT0 (rotary engines will use a 2.0 multiplication factor). Tube frame race cars are not eligible for ITO
5. The driver is responsible for providing the preparation specifications from the originating series for the car being raced
6. Competition vehicles from the following Touring type series are allowed to compete in ITO
I'd be okay with ITO since I'm in the SE and we will have that for 2008.
So you guys will not do ITO and limit the catch all class to 3L? I'm sure that is fine for most folks. In our region we now have a Ford Cobra R (a real one, one of the 250 I think produced) racing in ITO and others have asked for it. I've heard of a ex-World Challenge Caddy coming into ITO and maybe running the 13 hour for next year.
R
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