Is the right to bear arms outdated.

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Jim, you just choose not to understand. Prohibition of anything does not work.
You tried prohibiting alcohol, all that happened was criminals prospered.
Drugs are banned, yet you have a massive drug problem.
Ron's solution has merit.I think it would work, particularly with the mental health
Checks.
Would it stop killings, would it stop gun related crime? Of course not.
Australia banned guns some time ago, shootings and gun crime still happens,
How come if guns are banned?
Yes I know you will trot out stats that say death by guns in OZ have diminished since the ban, but what has lowered the number is suicide by gun.
Violent crime using a fire arm has increased.

Pete,

Please explain how prohibition of guns in Japan does not work?

Please explain why:

The Sandy Hook school shooting is the 15th mass shooting in the US in 2012. With the state of American gun laws, it is unsurprising that you are forty times more likely to be shot there than in the United Kingdom.
 
Don't you think that if your kid is wacked out enough to shoot you four times in the face, you might have had an inkling of this for quite a while prior?

Tom, I would love to know the answer to that. Obviously she knew he had issues, but maybe no one knew the extent of it.

I hope you can cut me some slack for referring to an AR-15 as an assault weapon. I'm not sure what else its good for.
 
Don't let anyone take away your rights even if you dont want them.....
I think more people are killed by cars than guns.... oops no more cars...
people smother people with pillows two.... oops no more pillows

Once you let it start you will not be able to stop it....
A lot of smokers already know this
but most of all, the people who would like to invade your country dont want you to have guns the most!
 
Tom, I would love to know the answer to that. Obviously she knew he had issues, but maybe no one knew the extent of it.

I hope you can cut me some slack for referring to an AR-15 as an assault weapon. I'm not sure what else its good for.


For those not familiar with AR-15's, they are semi-auto rifles offered in multiple calibers, the basically function the same as a Remington 7400. As to what they are useful for??? Hunting, yes hunting, target practice and competition. Quality AR-15's are every bit as accurate as high end bolt action rifles which is why there popularity has grown for competition and hunting.

They are also very modular to allowing customization. With one rifle, I can have a precision varmint/target rifle, pull the 2 takedown pins, remove the .223 barrel assembly and replace it with another barrel assembly such as 24" 6.5 Grendel chambered barrel for shooting out to 1000 yard competition or a 16" 6.5 Grendel barrel for deer hunting. So I can save space in my safe and save money by owning one lower receiver (that has the serial number and is considered the regulated firearm) and have different upper receivers (barrel assemblies).
 
Something that does concern me is this info about home made bombs....

According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, between 1998 and 2008, approximately 4,200 incidents involved the possession, manufacture, and use of homemade explosives for experimentation and criminal purposes.

Last time I checked, general bomb making is also illegal.
 

marc

Lifetime Supporter
Hunting = You all city folks haven't seen a mad wild pig about 400 to 600 pounds ripping your land and property to shreds. Or comming after you. So if you have one of those charging you (yes razor sharp teeth) and very legal to kill without a permit, do you want your swiss miss all in one knife with spoon to stir your tea, or a gun that will allow you to pull the trigger as quick as you can to put the damn thing down before it guts you. If you said neither use an elephant gun, that assumes you can shoot straight scared sh$tless as you only get one try, you died.
 

marc

Lifetime Supporter
Right now I would buy one if they weren't sold out in DFW area(assault style rifle).
 
For some reason, this post gets ignored. I am not a gun ethusiast. Don't like guns, don't want to own any guns and probably never will, and all that.

But I also think reasonable, responsible people should be allowed to own essentially whatever firearm they want.

What kills me is the gun lobby refusing to agree to anything, and simply accepting the status quo as acceptable. It isn't.

The below to me seems reasonable. So for the other gun enthusiasts on this board, what in the below is problematic and why?

Works for me, things will never be perfect, but something needs to be done.
 
Chris, some of your points concerning gun control seem to be confusing. In this case, how would any level of gun control have stopped this shooting? Registration? Permits? Background checks? What would it have done?


In the Lanza case, not much of what you listed above would have helped. Although it does not apply here, I still feel all of those regulations are extremely important and we should investigate if there are any ways to make them as effective as possible.

What may have helped in this situation is if the guns were stored properly and locked away. They were the mother's guns and her son should not have had access to them under any circumstance......no keys, no lock combos, nothing. He certainly should not have add all of that ammunition in the house either.

To be clear, I do not want to stop a responsible, sane gun enthusiast from obtaining one. I do think we need to address how guns are bought and sold. I also believe we need to make sure firearms are cared for properly after the sale.

Before the Sale:

1. 12 hrs classroom time/ 3 hrs range time prerequisite for obtaining permit
Instructor will be required to flag/fail any students who demonstrate
high risk behavior or who cannot pass an algebra test. The hands on
test will be given in October only and will involve a haunted hayride. If
you can make it through that without discharging your weapon or
wetting your pants you pass.

2. First weapon purchase will be limited to a sling shot and a box of
Whoppers.

3. New gun owners will be required to wear a red "G" on their lapel.

After the Sale:

1. Owners who lose or have their weapons stolen will be deemed
irresponsible and have their permits covered in peanut butter and fed
to my dog.

2. Large ammunition purchases will be need prior authorization from Ted
Kennedy.

3. See number 3 above. Experienced owners can lose the "G" and just
wear a Davy Crockett Coon hat.
 
Pete,

Please explain how prohibition of guns in Japan does not work?

Please explain why:

The Sandy Hook school shooting is the 15th mass shooting in the US in 2012. With the state of American gun laws, it is unsurprising that you are forty times more likely to be shot there than in the United Kingdom.

Jim, CA's gun laws are some of the strictest in the US, but death by firearms in CA is the highest number in the US. Ron's idea or something like it has the best chance of reducing firearm related death. Taking 270,000,000 firearms from 80,000,000 citizens isn't going to happen.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Jim, CA's gun laws are some of the strictest in the US, but death by firearms in CA is the highest number in the US. Ron's idea or something like it has the best chance of reducing firearm related death. Taking 270,000,000 firearms from 80,000,000 citizens isn't going to happen.

Gee Tom,

Trying to misslead us again?

Tom, you know very well that California has by far the largest population, and yes by comparison we have fairly strong gun laws.

When factored for population, California is 29th in gun deaths (DC is not a state), well behind these gun toting, red states (now we know why they are "RED" states)!



FirearmDeaths.gif
 
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I'm a firearms enthusiast. No doubt about that. Like guns, don't take my guns, guns don't kill people do, personal responsibility, and all that.

But I do think we can make some changes in our laws that would help to prevent criminals and unqualified individuals from owning firearms.

Thank You! This is all most of us are asking for....... just a little more open mindedness and the willingness to at least take a closer look at our current laws.
 
Gee Tom,

Trying to misslead us again?

Tom, you know very well that California has by far the largest population, and yes by comparison we have fairly strong gun laws.

When factored for population, California is 29th in gun deaths (DC is not a state), well behing these gun toting, red states (now we know why they are "RED" states)!


FirearmDeaths.gif

I said the number of deaths was the highest, and it is. CA had 1220 firearm murders in 2011 or 10% of US murders followed by Texas at 699.
 
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Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Pete,

Please explain how prohibition of guns in Japan does not work?

Please explain why:

The Sandy Hook school shooting is the 15th mass shooting in the US in 2012. With the state of American gun laws, it is unsurprising that you are forty times more likely to be shot there than in the United Kingdom.

I know little about Japan, other than the culture is nothing like America's or for that matter Australia's. For instance the Japanese actually look up to their senior citizens and do not mock them and call them old white guys, or in their case old yellow guys.
However I was saying banning guns in Australia has not worked and as usual
you skillfully use a diversionary tactic.
Jim please explain to me why you want to change your constitution?
 
I hope you can cut me some slack for referring to an AR-15 as an assault weapon. I'm not sure what else its good for.

It might sound silly, but AR15's are really great hunting rifles in states that allow them to go hunting. They actually shoot really small bullets that have a flat trajectory and have been used for prairie dogs and varmints since their inception. Many states don't allow the small .223 bullet on deer sized game, but in the states that do, hunters say that it doesn't damage the meat as much as a .30 cal round does; therefore they can make more venison.

So the problem with defining an 'assault rifle' is just that. What exactly makes up and assault rifle? What about them makes them so much more lethal than anything else? Does it being made of black plastic make it so much more deadly? Do people really attach bayonets to them and stab people?
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Please explain why:

The Sandy Hook school shooting is the 15th mass shooting in the US in 2012...


Please explain why "gun-free zone" laws (not to mention the dozens of other gun control laws aimed at restricting the actions/gun rights of law abiding citizens) failed to prevent all of them.

But, I'm sure Sen.Feinstein's upcoming bill to ban AR-15s, etc., once passed, will put an end mass murders - and gun crimes in general - once and for all. Really. It will. Truly. Trust me.

Oh...wait a minute...that's already been tried hasn't it.



I really need to take a break from this thread for a while...
 
For some reason, this post gets ignored. I am not a gun ethusiast. Don't like guns, don't want to own any guns and probably never will, and all that.

But I also think reasonable, responsible people should be allowed to own essentially whatever firearm they want.

What kills me is the gun lobby refusing to agree to anything, and simply accepting the status quo as acceptable. It isn't.

The below to me seems reasonable. So for the other gun enthusiasts on this board, what in the below is problematic and why?

Personally, I think what he proposed is OK.

But, I think the reason why the gun lobby never wants to agree to anything is because the proposed legislation is usually ridiculous and is typically a large step in banning all guns.

Most of the things proposed are things like this:
Take Immediate Action to Stop Illinois Lawmakers from Passing Gun Ban | Are We Aware Yet? Political News Blog-Current News Political News Blog

This proposed ban was so encompassing that it was sure to upset any gun owner.
 

marc

Lifetime Supporter
Every law they pass creates another boon for the lawyers. The attorneys are lining up for this one baby because someone is going to pay. We are witness to the fleecing of America 1 law at a time. And with the whittling away at our freedoms. Those of us that build kit cars, your day is coming too. Remember our EPA? Government wants you to not buy these cars. They put hurdles up so it becomes so difficult that you will either have to cheat the "law" or tow it to a track once in a blue moon.

1 law at a time. Take the assault guns, because of sandy hook, take the large magazines because of Kathy Gibbons, take Saturday night special because the deaths in DC, take the handguns in Chicago, cause the mob is in power. 1 law at a time.

Your right we are outdated.
We can be silent no more. Our liberties are going 1 law at a time.
 
Please explain why "gun-free zone" laws (not to mention the dozens of other gun control laws aimed at restricting the actions/gun rights of law abiding citizens) failed to prevent all of them.

But, I'm sure Sen.Feinstein's upcoming bill to ban AR-15s, etc., once passed, will put an end mass murders - and gun crimes in general - once and for all. Really. It will. Truly. Trust me.

Oh...wait a minute...that's already been tried hasn't it.


I really need to take a break from this thread for a while...

Can we just outlaw dumba$$ douchebags like Feinstein???? That we would solve half the problems....
 
It might sound silly, but AR15's are really great hunting rifles in states that allow them to go hunting. They actually shoot really small bullets that have a flat trajectory and have been used for prairie dogs and varmints since their inception. Many states don't allow the small .223 bullet on deer sized game, but in the states that do, hunters say that it doesn't damage the meat as much as a .30 cal round does; therefore they can make more venison.

So the problem with defining an 'assault rifle' is just that. What exactly makes up and assault rifle? What about them makes them so much more lethal than anything else? Does it being made of black plastic make it so much more deadly? Do people really attach bayonets to them and stab people?

The definition of an assault rifle is the ability to fire full auto or 3 shot bursts. The AR15, etc. semi automatics are not assault rifles, they are semi auto rifles, one shot per each pull of the trigger. Full auto/assault rifles are controlled by Federal firearms license.
 
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