Is the right to bear arms outdated.

[Jack]

"My car is insured
My home is insured
My stuff is insured

None of those things are worth dying for,
None of those things are worth killing for.
None of those thing is worth the accidental death of a family member."

I tend to agree with you on this one Jim.

Should a family member be threatened, that's a whole different story. I wouldn't choose to kill someone over "stuff", but I am fully prepared to defend myself and my family with deadly force if the situation demands.
It's a choice...
"Rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6".

 

[Larry L.]

I have never been robbed, I have never been assaulted, I have never had my car stolen.

And may God grant that will always be the case, sir.

You are willing to shoot someone over a car?
You are willing to open fire in a residential neighborhood over a car?
You are willing to open fire in your home over stuff?
You are willing to open fire on a an unidentified figure in your home?

Danimal will have to speak for himself there, but, I don't recall him ever declaring anything of the sort. You're putting words in his mouth, as they say.

None of those things are worth dying for,
None of those things are worth killing for.

Many criminals and loons don't share your views in that regard, sir. In fact, some of them are willing to kill or be killed over whom they consider to be the wrong person walking down 'their' street.


I have a serious question for you, sir. 'Not trying to bait you...'not trying to back you into a corner...'not trying to 'set you up':

What is your personal plan to deal with a home invasion - whether the perps are armed or not? How do you intend to defend yourself (and whomever else may be in your home at the time) against armed thugs...or even unarmed thugs? Do you have a 'watch dog'? Well, great...but the thugs just shot him. So, now what? IOW, what I'm getting at is you've found yourself in a situation where you have to defend yourself by yourself. So, what is your 'gun-free' defense plan? Seriously, I'd like to know what it is. I'm not being 'cute' here. I'd really like to know. I'd also like to know what you'd recommend in that regard for someone who's, say, 70-yrs-old or older...or someone whose handicapped in some way. Again, I'm being serious here. I really would like to know.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jim Craik]

Larry,

Thats a fair question.

I do have two dogs, they are loud, loyal and brave, they would provide warning but in the end little else.

My plan would depend on the situation, we would leave if possibe. If thats not possable, I would be very nice, give them all they want, open the safe, show them where the good stuff is hidden without being asked, help them load their car and wish them a safe trip.

 

[Danimal W]

Mr. Craik,

If guns are 100% banned and magically disappear even from criminals... What are law abiding people (especially thosed who used to exercise their right to gun ownership) going to do to immediately stop crimes against them??? Unless you have some pixie dust that you haven't told us about that will automatically turn evil people into alter boys.


Danimal,

I have never been robbed, I have never been assaulted, I have never had my car stolen.
I have had two people very close to be shot (only one died) by angry people with a gun!

You are willing to shoot someone over a car?
You are willing to open fire in a residential neighborhood over a car?
You are willing to open fire in your home over stuff?
You are willing to open fire on a an unidentified figure in your home?

You are crazy!

My car is insured
My home is insured
My stuff is insured

None of those things are worth dying for,
None of those things are worth killing for.

And I'm sure your life is insured, but you won't come back to life as proven by the very sad murder of your friend George or my mother-in-law's brother. Both George and Gibbons were murdered by evil people by different means. The means are irrelevant, it was the person behind the means.

I posted earlier that what happened to your uncle and friend was tragic, I am not downplaying that.

I have also posted that I was not victimized because I was armed, and my pistol was never unholstered, but the thugs saw that I was onto them and they changed their minds and direction. It was the THREAT that I may armed that changed the situation. never WANT to shoot in defense of my life. But if someone threatens me or my family thaen they have made the decision for both of us. Notice I did not say if they want my belongings, I said if they THREATEN. At this point, THEY have escalated the situation.

As to the shooting the unidentified... Bullshit. My home defense pistol has a 135 lumen light mounted on it. There will be no doubt as to who the light is on. And only after id'ng person will the safety be disengaged IF needed. You have watched too many Hollywood movies if you think that I would shoot first then question.

Sorry Mr Craik, you are not willing to put a "gun free zone" sign in your yard now , I as well as 90 million other people, do not agree to you,by defacto, putting those signs in our yards.

And since we do not have a police officer assigned to each and everyone of us to act as a visually deterrent to evil doers, I have to protect myself. Do I expect trouble, no...I also do not expect my house to catch on fire either, but I have a fire extinguisher and I'll bet dollars to donuts, you do as well. And as I pointed out, SCOTUS ruled that we DO NOT have the right to police protection, nor do they have the obligation to protect us.

And since current laws that prohibit certain behavior and acts of violence are being ignored by criminals, there is no way that YOU can guarantee that crime will unequivocally stop 100%.

Oh, wait I forgot, you wanted me victimized or dead...thanks Mr Craik.

 

[Danimal W]

Larry,

Thats a fair question.

I do have two dog, they are loud, loyal and brave, they provide warning but in the end little else.

My plan would depend on the situation, we would leave if possibe. If thats not possable, I would be very nice, give them all they want, open the safe, show them where the good stuff is hidden and help them load their car.

And when they hit a homerun, replacing the ball for your head, rape your wife then kill her as well to eliminate any witnesses, what's your plan then?

Again, I do not wish this for anyone.

Criminals don't give a rat's ass though...

 

[Jim Craik]

Danamal,

If they have mental health services available in Communist USA, I strongly suggest you seek their help. Paranoia, ruins lives, it can be treated.

 

[Danimal W]

I am not paranoid. I am prepared.

Do you have a fire extinguisher or a sprinkler system in your house? Are you paranoid that your house is going to burn???

 

[Larry L.]

Larry,

Thats a fair question.

I do have two dogs, they are loud, loyal and brave, they would provide warning but in the end little else.

My plan would depend on the situation, we would leave if possibe. If thats not possable, I would be very nice, give them all they want, open the safe, show them where the good stuff is hidden without being asked, help them load their car and wish them a safe trip.

With all due respect, sir, what you're saying is your plan is to throw the wellbeing of 'you and yours' upon the mercy of thugs and hope they: (1) have no problem with leaving live witnesses behind to I.D. them later, and (2) have nothing but 'stealing stuff' on their minds. IMHO that's not a defense plan, Mr. Craik, that's an unconditional surrender before the fact which leaves your survival completely up to the thugs. You will have no say in the matter whatsoever.

I do thank you for your 100% honest reply, sir. But, I think I'm going to stick to my own 'plan. I prefer the odds. :chug:

Edit: I don't know how large your house is, or if architecturally this would be possible regardless, but, were I you, I think I'd have a 'panic room' built somewhere in my home...or at the very least I'd fortify a existing, centrally located, interior room (because no windows might be best from a security standpoint...with a cell phone in it) that you and yours could make a bee line to if needed. (You know...SOLID, THICK wood door [not hollow]...dead bolt...that sort of thing.) Every 'high end', new construction home I've seen lately has panic room incorporated into it somewhere. Paranoia? Well, you know what 'they' say about that...)

 

[Jack]

Larry's edit comments have merit.
It is critical that you make some type of a plan and practice it. Use a key word
for evacuation or whatever. Ensure that all household members know this and participate. Keep it simple and practice it so there will be less confusion should an incident occur. I do wish you the best!

My plan has been posted earlier, no hesitation involved or time wasted in deciding what to do.

 

[Jim Craik]

Larry,

If someone wants somthing I have bad enough to come and take it, they can have it, I have insurance. Stuff can be replaced. Violent, armed risistance can only lead to a bad ending.

I'm more than willing to take my chances that "stuff" is what they want, I have lots of stuff and I can get more.

My home is fairly large, but even better it is at the top of a mountain, surrounded by hundreds of acres, full of trees.

When I weigh the unlikely, worst case scenario you paint against the much, much higher odds of a loved one being killed in an accident, by a mistake, by a law Officer responding to my security alarm system, in an argument or in a suicide. I have to go with my head and the odds.

 

[Danimal W]

Mr Craik,

When evil people cease to exist, I might feel the same... Fact is evil will always be present in society.

Never mind the fact that I hunt and compete, it is my right and I will exercise my right to protect myself.

 

[Larry L.]

Larry,

If someone wants somthing I have bad enough to come and take it, they can have it, I have insurance. Stuff can be replaced. Violent, armed risistance can only lead to a bad ending.

I'm more than willing to take my chances that "stuff" is what they want, I have lots of stuff and I can get more.

My home is fairly large, but even better it is at the top of a mountain, surrounded by hundreds of acres, full of trees.

When I weigh the unlikely, worst case scenario you paint against the much, much higher odds of a loved one being killed in an accident, by a mistake, by a law Officer responding to my security alarm system, in an argument or in a suicide. I have to go with my head and the odds.

...and that certainly is your right, sir.

But it makes me even more n-n-n-nervous about your situation now to know, "My home...is at the top of a mountain, surrounded by hundreds of acres, full of trees." Translation: Isolated...meaning long LEO response time...no neighbors to see or hear diddly...you're totally on your own.

But, if you're smack in the middle of that hundreds of acres it could be a 'plus' for you as well in that maybe perps wouldn't suspect there'd be a house back in there somewhere.

Life's a crap shoot...

 

[Danimal W]

Mr Craik,

Didn't you say that you thought people were fundamentally good??? If so, then why do you have a security system on your house? Paranoid?

 

[Jim Craik]

The security sysem was there when we bought the house. Typically we only use it when we are away, but there is a "panic" button.

The great part, is, altough there is little in the way of neighbors, less than 1/4 mile away is a large, year round, Cal Fire station, manned 24-7 by, brave, steely eyed men! We take them cookies and spagetti, they say they can hear our alarm system from their quarters.

They tell is in the case of trouble, the police may take a while, but large fire trucks with lights and sirens......................seconds away!

We have their number on speed dial.

 

[Danimal W]

Let's hope that mother nature doesn't turn bitch again...

Feb 1010, during a blizzard, the social hall of my local fire department.....caught on fire a.d burned down.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Larry's edit, is pretty much what they do in South Africa.
Jim IMHO you do need a better plan than throwing yourself at the mercy of the bad guys.
I believe below should be captioned "only in America".
Looks like fun though.

- [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQnU1t7UzgM]Oklahoma Full Auto Shoot and Trade Show - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Tom P]

I think that the reason that there are mishaps, is the lack of a plan. Whether it be for fire, home invasion, storm, ect. Most people get hurt or die because they don't have a plan that they review regularly. If you own a firearm or don't you should have a plan. Most people get hurt going to look for the bad guy. When living in a two storie house I kept a house key tied to a hankerchief that I could drop out the window to police when the arrived, hunting for bad guys in the dark is their job. I would also stay in contact with them on the phone. But if someone came crashing into the bedroom without a identifying themselves, it would be a very bad day for them.

 

[Jack]

Reminds me of an old saying: "Failing to plan is planning to fail" or something like that.
And the Boy Scout motto and all that too...

And sometimes (at the moment) "It just don't matter"

 

[marc]

I guess y'all forgot their are other reasons for a firearm. Shootin' criminals ain't so good, they don't taste right (probably don't wash much!). Like wild duck, geese, quail, good piece of venison jerky. How bout Wild Boar (not you, Jim) or looking to put some antlers on the front of that GT40 Texas style! Or just shooting targets, beer cans, old rusted cars or clay pigeons.

Oh sorry! Y'all scared you'll take out an eye with the old Red Ryder BB Gun.
Hand eye coordination gone. Too bad it ain't coming back.

And you ask why do I want a magazine for my Glock 17 that holds 33 rounds. Because when I want to practice, before I go, I load my magazines. Having a 33 rounds in one magazine when practicing (or playing, whatever) is less hassle than carrying 15 magazines of that hold 5 or 6.

Y'all can cut this turkey up any way you want, the 2nd amendment is in the Constitution and it is a RIGHT YOU HAVE. Keep giving up your rights and you will find yourself a serf back in the 11th century.

 

[Larry L.]

...the police may take a while, but large fire trucks with lights and sirens......................seconds away!

Actually, sir, they're several minutes away if you think about it (at least 3 or 4). A lot can 'go down' in that amount of time.