Little Venting - SPF Construction

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Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
. I respectfully reject Roberts assertion that information like this on the internet negatively impact the value of the cars. In fact I think it may improve the value at least for those who don't hide the flaws and can demonstrate the corrections thereof. .

Yes, a well-documented and well-supported car (even when supported only by owners) is more valuable, not less. With a couple exceptions, none of the issues I've identified and documented are particularly difficult or expensive to correct, which I know because I've corrected them all myself and published the methods here. That, in fact, is part of what makes the situation so frustrating; the problems are relatively easy to fix, but the information needed to do so is not propagated by the people who have it (myself and a few others excepted).

The people I feel really sorry for are the owners who do not read this forum (and there must be at least a 150 or more) because they're getting no technical communication whatsoever. They are the real victims of SPF's silence, especially in light of what the Cobra guys get for far less money.
 
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Robert S.

GT40s Supporter
Just when you think it's safe to visit the forum again, the very same forum that SPF was so gracious to pay for and provide for us, and now we have another round of sarcasm, and snipes at SPF - all apparently now, intentional acts, not merely negligent, to relentlessly cast aspersions on the maker of my car, and to lessen the value of my SPF vehicle.

Yes, a well-documented and well-supported car (even when supported only by owners) is more valuable, not less.

There is no factual proof whatsoever that what you stated here as fact: "even when supported only by owners", rather than as an opinion, is true. On the other hand, there were numerous testimonies here that the owner of SPF was very receptive to phone calls, and personal visits, and was cheerfully willing to both listen, and to inform or clarify any issues concerning the SPF vehicles. I have personally experienced that as recent as yesterday, when I was at SPF in person to see the new tires that were just mounted on my new vehicle. I spoke to Lance personally about several issues, and he had the answers – all of which were too lengthy for this post.

The sarcastic, emotional, mean spirited snipes, and unjustifiable statements you relentlessly unleash on SPF significantly reduces your credibility with me, rather than enhancing it, as you apparently, but sadly must believe. They also neutralize much of the valiant good works you have performed over the years helping others to resolve problems and devise enhancements for the benefit of other car owners.

I seriously suggest you reevaluate your motives, your true goals, and your policy on this issue. If you remain unwilling or unable to separate the good works you are very capable of, from your desire to state sarcastic opinions in a form that makes them insidiously appear to others as facts, then you need to use some of that free space your IPS provides you with, and have a web site of your own, to do with as you please. Then, you can impress the visitors to your site with what you refer to egotistically as, your research and documentation skills, and you can infect that nice work with your mindless, senseless aspersions in the form of snipes and sarcasms, to your own peril.

With a couple exceptions, none of the issues I've identified and documented are particularly difficult or expensive to correct, which I know because I've corrected them all myself and published the methods here. That, in fact, is part of what makes the situation so frustrating; the problems are relatively easy to fix, but the information needed to do so is not propagated by the people who have it (myself and a few others excepted).

Let’s take your own words here, and attempt to discern what your purpose was. Never missing an opportunity to sneak in an ego boost, you said: “With a couple exceptions, none of the issues I've identified and documented are particularly difficult or expensive to correct, which I know because I've corrected them all myself and published the methods here.”

Well, of course, once we all are gracious enough to overlook your ego fondling, we have yet another untruth, or wrong fact. Lance (SPF) the seller of the car, not the maker of the car, the very person and entity you are referring to in your post, pays for this very forum, on this very web site, for you and the rest of us to use for the very purpose you are espousing above, i.e., to discover problems, real and perceived, and solutions, and to share them with fellow owners, would-be buyers, and other interested people. I can’t think of any better way to say it than I just did. The question begs, what part of that simple sentence are you, and a very few others, either not willing, or not able to understand!

The people I feel really sorry for are the owners who do not read this forum (and there must be at least a 150 or more) because they're getting no technical communication whatsoever. They are the real victims of SPF's silence, especially in light of what the Cobra guys get for far less money.

As tenacious as the Eveready bunny, huh. The only reason I can think of that people either don’t or no longer read this forum is primarily due to the existence of all the useless criticisms, emotional outbursts, sarcasms, bantering, and the use of threads and posts to enhance people’s egos.

There is another factor here that is commonly known by many entrepreneurs and business minded folk on this forum, and it apparently needs to be shared to hopefully benefit a few who lack this knowledge. Fact: We live in what has sadly evolved into a very litigious society. The very purpose of attorneys, many of whom devote a lifetime to perpetuating their purpose, is to either sue you or defend you from a lawsuit. Those of us in business oft consult our legal advisers concerning what we DESIRE to say in written form about the products we make or sell, especially because our decency instincts motivate us to disclose, share, and defend our products and/or services. Sadly though, we are advised to avoid statements or comments that may ultimately become harmful to us personally or to our business, and if we go out of business, then our employees lose their jobs too, and then all of our past customers have no place to turn for information and product support.

The simple minded conspiracy theorists, with nothing at all better to do, will exclaim that this is just a ploy to avoid sharing possible problems with a companies’ products or services, but that is not true. And, before one makes that embarrassing assumption concerning SPF, please remember that there is the forum Lance and SPF pays for here, and that Lance and staff are much more available to the customers and the public, via tel/con and on-site than most other CEOs are. Finally, the vast majority of problems discussed in the subject threads and posts concern the manufacturing process, and not the sales process, and Lance and SPF have very little, if any, control over the manufacturing and or Engineering aspects. That being said, they often do, behind the scene, express their observations, suggestions and desires for bettering the product they SELL, and they do so for their well-being as well as for their customers.

You came close, but did not make the apology you owe Lance and his business. You have, all this while, apparently relied on another person to relay all of your so called discoveries and solutions to Lance, but that individual never followed through. So all your mean spirited allegations directed at Lance were unjustified and false. Here's a novel thought, why not step up to the plate like a real man, make your apology, and let's all move on to a more consistently positive approach, and bring back to this forum those 150 owners you alluded to in a prior post, who stopped reading it.

Robert
 

Steve C

Steve
GT40s Supporter
In my posts above I tout Olthoff (rightly so as he sold me the roller, performed the install, did a great job and is an overall great resource) BUT, over the years Lance has gone above and beyond to service me with parts (both in and out of warantee), AND as I was an "earlly adopter" set me up with a direct line to the source for engineering dialog.

I have found in my business and personal dealings that it is necessary to CULTIVATE a RESPECTFUL relationship with the MANAGMENT of the companies I deal with and in so doing much if not all of the frustration that otherwise ooccurs is eliminated.

I have yet to hear of anyone writing into this forum not being taken care of if they have contacted Lance and have a ligitimate complaint (example Jim C had his shock tower repaired when his car was years and miles out of warantee). I would bet that many of the complaints discussed would have been taken care of if brought up to the dealers upon delivery inspection (did the owners complaining do a delivery inspection) or if waranted and discussed with Lance.

We have a good product and this thread and other snipes at SPF are not doing owners and SPF any good in what is an open forum

From now on my suggestion is to vent here AFTER and IF there is no remedy.

In closing I am not suggesting that we not share our issues but, let's give SPF a fair shake.

Steve P22125

PS: I'm a lot more worried about home built rods on the road than I am about the SPF roller.
 

Robert S.

GT40s Supporter
Alan, I just noticed that within your last post, you choose to quote Michael's post:

Originally Posted by MHNCO
"I respectfully reject Roberts assertion that information like this on the internet negatively impact the value of the cars."

Maybe Michael missed this post:

"Having said that, though...I would probably NOT at this time consider SPF, given the content of this thread. There are just too many other good options out there, for those of us who do not care about "continuation" series issues."

"Sad...the SPF is a very nicely optioned...."
Doug _____

I know you didn't miss it though Alan, but apparently it doesn't matter to you. The fact that only one person admitted that this thread has dissuaded him from purchasing a SPF GT40 should not be taken lightly. For every one person that would take the time, or go on written record as Doug did, there are hundreds or more people who would have read this thread, not to mention those who will be referred to this thread by Goggle, or other browsers, as Ron Earp mentioned recently.

The reason I know you didn't miss it, is that you responded to Doug in the very next post, and you said: "The SPF GT40 is by far the superior product. My recommendation is that you buy one and fix, or have fixed, the issues. It's not that hard. You just have to know about them. All the ones I know of are documented somewhere in the SPF forum."

Still though, you quote someone that says they don't believe that our cars are being devalued by these careless posts, when the facts indicate otherwise . . .

Are you having difficulty understanding this FACT, or is this another intentional act?

Robert
 

Glenn B.

Lifetime Supporter
I have deleted the majority of my intended response after reading Robert's post. He eloquently conveyed the message. I won't bother addressing the personal snipes...it's not worth the time, nor of interest to the readers.

The bottom line Alan: You'll get no respect here until you do whatever you must to gather the courage to have a direct, objective, adult conversation with Superformance regarding your concerns and suggestions. By your own admission, that has yet to occur. You owe them the opportunity to listen and respond. It's called fairness.

You state you've "done quite enough for the SPF GT 40 community as it is". Until you add civility, objectivity, and accuracy in addition to your technical content, you still have a long way to go. We look forward to that outcome.

Here's their contact information, again, for your convenience.

Lance Stander
CEO
Superformance, LLC.
Shelby Distribution
Hillbank Motorsports

[email protected]
949-900-1951 Office

Glenn
 
However, if you would prefer I not do so, I will happily cease posting technical discoveries, analyses, recommendations and fixes on this forum. It would certainly free up more time to work on P2160 itself as well as pursuing my various other more appreciated pursuits. If you like, I can even request the moderators delete all my posts. Just let me know...

I've had it with the sniping too. You offered the above Alan. Go do it.
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
I took Glen up on his offer and Lance actually phoned and left a message for me yesterday evening. I've been trying to figure out what it is I plan on accomplishing when I return his call. Simply biatching about things might make me feel better but what would it accomplish? I appreciate him taking time to reach out to me and plan on calling him back shortly. What should I say?

Stick around Alan. There's room for everybody here and you guys that have no complaints, you either are lucky with cars that came out a lot better than others or you haven't looked under the covers very deep. My issues are aesthetic for the most part but some of the braking issues are more serious. I would be not a pleasant person should I have found issues on my car that could potentially be dangerous. I believe having Dennis build my car hopefully removed this as a concern of mine.
 

Robert S.

GT40s Supporter
I took Glen up on his offer and Lance actually phoned and left a message for me yesterday evening. I've been trying to figure out what it is I plan on accomplishing when I return his call. Simply biatching about things might make me feel better but what would it accomplish? I appreciate him taking time to reach out to me and plan on calling him back shortly. What should I say?

Good show Michael! Write a short bullet point list of your most important concerns. Then, categorize them as either ones already corrected, or problems that still exist. Try to imagine which of these things he might be able to address, and which he may have to send on to the factory. I am excited that you are moving in this direction, and hopefully setting a good example for others. Then, we can all use this forum for positive, productive, pleasant pursuits regarding our cars.

Robert
 

Robert S.

GT40s Supporter
However, if you would prefer I not do so, I will happily cease posting technical discoveries, analyses, recommendations and fixes on this forum. It would certainly free up more time to work on P2160 itself as well as pursuing my various other more appreciated pursuits. If you like, I can even request the moderators delete all my posts. Just let me know...

That would be my desire UNLESS you can continue your worthy efforts, but not include any wild guesses, emotional snipes, mean spirited criticisms, and misdirecting fault toward the wrong company, and expressing your opinions that are wordsmithed to appear to the unknowing as facts, rather than just speculation and personal opinion.

Simply put, we appreciate your efforts, and are willing to acknowledge them, and to thank you for them, but we cannot, and will not allow you to continue your assault on our assets and SPF.

You may have been lulled into believing that this circumstance will pass too, simply because no one has REALLY challenged you. Make no mistake; if your next post pops up with any of your typical antics, I'll post a thread requesting volunteers to scour through all of your posts, and to copy and past any wrong facts, slanderous remarks, and any disparaging statements you have made.

YOU have cost me money: devalued asset. You will not continue your antics with impunity. I can make it real unboring for you, real quickly.

Robert
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
...copy and past any wrong facts, slanderous remarks, and any disparaging statements you have made.

I don't know how useful it would be to repeat any of my slanderous or disparaging remarks, and it will likely embarrass more people that just myself. So think hard before you do that. I also don't know how the moderators would feel about the massive reposting of already posted material. That aside, it will make entertaining reading.

On the other hand, correcting "wrong facts" of mine or anyone else's is always good for the forum and the community. Please proceed.
 
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Glenn B.

Lifetime Supporter
Michael,

You started this entire thread with this comment:

" What were the people thinking at Superformance who put my car together. Did they look at this and the many other piss poor things and think.... ah yes... That will do! Were they drunk? Maybe stoned? That or they they suffered from some incredibly poor attention to details. It's not like it would have taken anymore time to do it right. Gawd dang you knuckleheads did some awful work and if you worked for me you would have been fired on the spot!"

You have two choices: Defend the statements you made in public and the manner in which you made them, or apologize for it. It's out there. Now thousands of readers, including Lance, have read it. It's a "black or white" call for you to make. You left no grey area for interpretation in your initial post.

You asked me to broker the meeting for you. But, now it's your choice as to the tone and message you wish convey to him. The content of the conversation should be kept private unless both parties agree to have it disclosed.
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Defend? I think I have defended that assertion throughout the entire thread with pictures and clear evidence. Feel free to point out any assertions of shoddy craftsmanship that I have not provided concrete evidence of and I will back fill with whatever you like?
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
Feel free to point out any assertions of shoddy craftsmanship that I have not provided concrete evidence of and I will back fill with whatever you like?

Same here. I have lots of photographs, and can always take more....

But there is something oddly contradictory here. One the one hand Robert, Glenn and Dave want us to keep our mouths shut to help preserve their resale value. On the other Robert wants to sweep the forum and repost every negative claim I've made and Glenn want us to defend our statements. Either one is just going increase the public exposure of the issues.

So, Glenn, Robert, Dave: which way do you want it?
 
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Glenn B.

Lifetime Supporter
I've got no issue with you. You wanted to take it up with Lance. You asked the forum what you should say. My only comment was that you should be prepared to defend your position in your post. Send him pictures...send him the thread...invite him to inspect the car. Or, do nothing. You decide.
 
Same here. I have lots of photographs, and can always take more....

But there is something oddly contradictory here. One the one hand Robert, Glenn and Dave want us to keep our mouths shut to help preserve their resale value. On the other Robert wants to sweep the forum and repost every negative claim I've made and Glenn want us to defend our statements. Either one is just going increase the public exposure of the issues.

So, Glenn, Robert, Dave: which way do you want it?
I'll repeat myself. Alan you offered to cease posting if asked to. Do so.
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
I will contact him shortly and thanks for passing on my information. I wouldn't have anyone else work on my car than Dennis but I'll be frank, I've got a couple issues I'm going to discuss with him as well. Other than just bitching about water under the bridge I'm still trying to put my thoughts into words.
 
If its any consulation to you gents allow me to make these statements based on my reading of the postings made on this thread and I've read everyone.

1) I'm a very proud CAV owner but I certainly admire the passion (good and bad) of those who took the time to respond to Michaels initial post.

2) Anyone who would not consider purchasing a SPF product after reading this thread would miss the point. Its because of the passion and feelings of those who posted that I would consider buying a SPF product. (But I still love my CAV!) :thumbsup:

3) Rick and others could have deleted many if not all the posts but chose not to. To me this speaks volumes about honesty & integrity about the SPF product line and Rick, as we know is an SPF dealer. No one, it appears to me, has anything to hide regarding the SPF products. They are not perfect cars, they have issues but they are certainly well worth a look and I'm sure if asked many current owners would say they'd buy another which is the ultimate reccomendation.

4) Everyone has the right to their opinion and its allowed to be voiced (to a respectable point) on this forum. The moderators and administrator know when to pull the plug and to their credit they have allowed those to have their say. I salute you gentlemen.

5) Everyone knows SPF produces a very solid product who most would be happy to own. I think Michael said that but just wishes the detail work was given a higher priority by those putting the car together. Michaels opinion....which he has the right to voice....was made....and others have the right to disagree with which they did.

6) I wish CAV were willing to pay for our own separate section as SPF continues to do. CAV chose not to renew which is sad but I will add Jean Foure and Johann Keyser (CAV owner and US Rep) have always been available to me by phone and email. SPF paying to remain a part of this forum is a great selling tool which speaks loudly about how they feel about their product and customers.

I'm done....long live the GT40.
 
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