More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

blueovalz

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
Recently we had an evening where we served 36% of our load (not a typo) with wind energy (this ~1/3-2/3 ratio happens more and more often). In this particular case, the wind was the marginal resource from a market perspective (that ought to make the conservative crowd happy), resulting in a negative system marginal price for the market. Yes there are subsidies, which were needed to start this kind of evolution in our energy supply, but the savings to the end user, from that initiative, continue to grow.

Many worthwhile things have been/are being subsidized while ultimately being profitable for the private sector (aside from Jeff's petrol reference, which I'm sure will be brushed aside). I can't imagine an American flag, being planted on the moon (probably the most worthless bang for the buck project), ever happening in US history if not for that.
 
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Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
JeffYoung said:
I love this argument.

It's usually advanced by people who don't know the first f****** thing about the power business.
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'If memory serves', it cost T. Boone Pickens several million dollars of his own money to discover "this argument" was valid re: wind farms...and I'd hazard a guess that he knows a thing or two about "the power business".

'Green' outfits like Solyndra, A123 Systems, Enner1 and the like famously proved they couldn't survive even with hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars in their pockets.

"Facts is facts"...as someone said.

As I see it, the biggest irony regarding 'green energy' is the fact that the entire green energy industry itself is just as dependent on fossil fuels as any other industry. In the modern world, nothing moves, nothing is grown, nothing is manufactured without 'dinosaur juice' being involved. I doubt the same will ever be said about 'green' energy...certainly in the next century (or two) anyway.
 
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Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Larry L. said:
'If memory serves', it cost T. Boone Pickens several million dollars of his own money to discover "this argument" was valid re: wind farms...and I'd hazard a guess that he knows a thing or two about "the power business".

'Green' outfits like Solyndra, A123 Systems, Enner1 and the like famously proved they couldn't survive even with hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars in their pockets.

"Facts is facts"...as someone said.

As I see it, the biggest irony regarding 'green energy' is the fact that the entire green energy industry itself is just as dependent on fossil fuels as any other industry. In the modern world, nothing moves, nothing is grown, nothing is manufactured without 'dinosaur juice' being involved. I doubt the same will ever be said about 'green' energy...certainly in the next century (or two) anyway.
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You remain hilariously ill informed. Hilariously.

Pickens did it wrong. Others have done it right. I could explain to you why, but it would be wasted breath.

For every Solyndra, there is a Maritime Link, or an Apollo Windfarm.

Facts is facts, most definitely, and a mixed grid of wind, hydro, coal, LNG and nuke is the way to go.
 
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Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
JeffYoung said:
You remain hilariously ill informed. Hilariously.
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But of course, Counselor. Aren't ALL conservatives ill-informed about everything...as well as stooopid, bigoted, homophobic, clueless, sexist, etc., etc., etc.? Shuuuuuur we are.

Only liberals 'know/have all the facts'. :pleased:
 
K

Keith

Moderator
I don't know about hilarious but I would venture to suggest that this thread has become somewhat ridiculous (probably from the third post).

I am always happy to learn something from both sides, in fact I have a thirst for it, but why does it always have to become mired in endless & insulting rhetoric?

If you feel the need to answer what in truth is a rhetorical question, (there's irony for you), at least please try and keep it civil.
 
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Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
It's simple really. American politics has devolved to the point where one side sees the other (and vice versa mostly) as a real enemy. Larry, Bob, Al, they think of me as the enemy. Me? I mostly feel sorry for them.

Every few weeks or so I come in here and read some nonsense about liberals this or green energy that, and I say something. Usually acerbic.

But the root cause of all this mess is the belief that some folks have that they can just come in here an insult "the other side" with impunity. THey do it regularly and they do it continously.

SO it goes in Internet land.
 
K

Keith

Moderator
Yes. it's a shame....

I try and imagine if such a conversation would be feasible in a group, face to face over a beverage, Many internet "conversations" would end in a bloodbath if you applied that simple rule, so, if it is heading that way, I try and keep my mouth shut.

Took me a while though....

(to learn that is...)
 
J

Steve

Supporter
JeffYoung said:
It's simple really. American politics has devolved to the point where one side sees the other (and vice versa mostly) as a real enemy. Larry, Bob, Al, they think of me as the enemy. Me? I mostly feel sorry for them.

Every few weeks or so I come in here and read some nonsense about liberals this or green energy that, and I say something. Usually acerbic.

But the root cause of all this mess is the belief that some folks have that they can just come in here an insult "the other side" with impunity. THey do it regularly and they do it continously.

SO it goes in Internet land.
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You're right. Our country is polarized as ever and the civility has gone out the window ....... On both sides.

I view success at alternative energy as a great way to stick it to the Middle East. In the near term, a mixture of all the above is the likely solution as you stated. Not sure solar will be commercially viable anytime soon but in some areas it may be on an individual basis. I built a new home and put in a geothermal HVAC. First time I cashed in on a govt subsidy in the form of a tax credit. System paid for itself in a year and combined with LED lights my power bill is half my neighbors. Not sure why this isn't emphasized more at the state and local level. It really is free after the ROI.

Curious about how T Bone Picket went about it wrong. Please elaborate.
 
K

Keith

Moderator
jammin man said:
You're right. Our country is polarized as ever and the civility has gone out the window ....... On both sides.

I view success at alternative energy as a great way to stick it to the Middle East. In the near term, a mixture of all the above is the likely solution as you stated. Not sure solar will be commercially viable anytime soon but in some areas it may be on an individual basis.
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It definitely seems that way to an outsider. My fear is that this apparent polarisation encourages those who would harm your country...

On your point about sticking it to the Middle East - no truer words have been written on this forum!

On the solar front, my understanding is that it has limitations for national use as it cannot be fed into the power grid because of the low voltages, cannot be stored and can only be "used" as produced. Now that's fine in a country that has around 12 hours plus of sunshine, but in our northern climes it means that peak solar production takes place at say midday to 1600, when demand is at it's lowest, then as you say, it's probably only good for individual users.

It doesn't stop alternative energy companies building (or trying to) solar farms though. Our local authorities seem none too happy with them and have started refusing them planning permission as we have several around here.

I will have to try and find out what drives their objections...perhaps the developers are after Central Govt subsidies which impacts on Local Authority budgets?
 
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Bob Fechter

"
Hell has finally frozen over! Fritz Vahrenholt, one of the fathers of Germany’s environmental movement who has headed the renewable energy division of RWE, that country’s second largest utility company, has co-authored a new blockbuster book with geologist/paleontologist Sebastian Luning announcing that the climate catastrophe heralded by the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has been called off. Titled “The Cold Sun: Why the Climate Disaster Won’t Happen”, it raises a man-made blizzard of icily numbing challenges to IPCC competence in general, and to their exaggerated attributions of CO2 greenhouse warming influence in particular."


A Top German Environmentalist Cools On Global Warming - Forbes
 
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