My SPF2202 against a 650 hp Ford GT

[Randy V]

How fast are the originals? Did he say 240 MPH?

YouTube - Le Mans 1969 onboard Ford GT 40

 

[Jack]

He said "approaching 240 MPH" whatever that means. Damn fast anyway..

 

[Daryl Adams]

He said "approaching 240 MPH" whatever that means. Damn fast anyway..

I think that was Vic Elford talking, and he was in the 917.

 

With regards to aerodynamic aids, I seem to remember that Autofuturia CAV GTR has a underbody tray, Gurney flap and a chin spoiler. Perhaps they can comment on the high speed stability of their car.

 

[Doug S.]

Re: SPF vs Ford GT

The guy with the GT probably had his ..wife / girlfriend / boyfriend along for the ride.....otherwise known as the independent fear activated 100mph handbrake.

THAT is exactly why I'd rather have a roll cage and NO passenger seat in my GT40 (if I ever get to build one!) I've always found the spirited driving experience SO much more enjoyable without all the uncrontrollable crying and empassioned pleading coming from the passenger's seat!

Doug

 

[Randy V]

I think that was Vic Elford talking, and he was in the 917.

Ah yes but I believe he was speaking about Peter Sadler's GT40.

He (Elford) did say something that would lead you to believe that the 917K was faster.

 

[Daryl Adams]

Ah yes but I believe he was speaking about Peter Sadler's GT40.

He (Elford) did say something that would lead you to believe that the 917K was faster.

I don't want to sound contentious, but we shouldn't perpetuate any myths. When Elford said "we" are approaching 240 I really think he meant himself and the other 917 drivers. He said that "in any other car besides the 917 the Mulsanne straight is taken flat out". He then says that the kink before Mulsanne corner is taken at 200 MPH, which means he (in the 917) has to lift in order to take the bend at 200 "the same as the other cars." I really don't think a MKI GT40 ever did much over 205 or 210 at LeMans, but I could be all wet. Someone should have some speed trap info on this someplace. All I know is an indicated 165 at Road America in my SPF was really starting to pull my pucker string and got me wondering what 200 must feel like. Ickx, Oliver, Hobbs et al must have had major sets of stones to hustle those cars at that speed day and night.

 

[Cliff Beer]

The question that keeps running around inside my head is all the stuff I've read about the GT40 running at 200+ on the Mulsanne in the 60's. Most of us are driving replica's and SPF claims their car is 95% interchangable with the original so why would the car be unable to do 200+? What am I missing?

Jimmy, you're right, there's no doubt an SPF with a Roush 427 will go 200mph. That's a given. My only comments here on this thread relate to something quite different, specifically, can the car be made safe enough at those speeds as to make it possible to do it without creating a large risk to life and limb in so doing.

What might be really interesting to know is how many, and who, here has actually done the magic 200 number in their GT40? And, can therefore comment on the experience with first hand knowledge? I have no such first-hand knowledge in a GT40 replica but do have some knowledge in two other cars (Lotus Esprit and modern Porsche turbo)...and it was highly illuminating to experience the dramatic difference between say 160 and 200 in those cars. I'm totally guessing it wouldn't be any different in a GT40 but, again, I don't know first hand.

 

[Cliff Beer]

"Lotus - highly developed modern supercars"......I'm sorry but you made me spray coffee all over my keyboard!

Pat, I'm not talking about a 1977 series 1 Esprit... I'm talking about a 1997 S4S version. Quite advanced, including a lot of wind tunnel testing. Suspension was absolutely amazing and cutting edge - there's a reason why major car companies have been hiring Lotus for suspension design for ages, and still do.

 

[roaldin]

Not GT40 but...

YouTube - Top Secret R33 GTR 200MPH wangan run

YouTube - Nissan Skyline 1300 Hp Top Speed Runs - over 345kph on a country road!

There was a Jun WRX there that did 309k.

Although I own both a GT-R and a WRX I am not silly enough to believe they aren't relative bricks aerodynamically.

I have it on pretty good authority that neither car left the road nor blew its doors/windows out.

If you REALLY want to see stability at 200ish MPH then watch - YouTube - Ghost Rider 500Bhp Suzuki Hayabusa Turbo - 295kph and passed by a 500bhp bike doing a wheelstand!

I intend to test all my cars at top speed runs, hopefully next year with any luck, so if the GT cracks 200 and I survive I'll get back to you.

I reckon SPF2202 could probably do it ok unless he leaves the windows open. Whether or not he should try is another question altogether.
(I'll run a splitter and diffuser)

Tim.

 

[Rich E.]

I just can't imagine doing 200+ in a 1960's design, even with canards and buttoned up windows and extra locking on the front and rear clamshells. Guys die when something goes wrong at those speeds. You don't just coast to a stop. Here's a couple interesting YouTube vids...

YouTube - Porsche GT1 Flip

YouTube - Flying Mercedes?!


Cliff,

IIRC both incidents stemmed from a combination of the car going light from and elevation change and traversing the downslope of the roadway while also entering an area of dirty upswung turbulent air created by the car just ahead. This in turn caused a pocket of high pressure lifting the front of the car. In simple terms its like playing air hockey with race cars. I do believe they changed the track slightly because of these crashes.

BTW, not to insult your friends car but the S4S was just the last incarnation of the 70's wedge that the first esprit was. As for build quality and things falling apart this might sum things up

YouTube - Fifth Gear - Lotus Esprit 200 mph Test part 1
YouTube - Fifth Gear - Lotus Esprit 200 mph Test part 2

No hard feelings Cliff. I just think we have a difference of opinion on capabilities.

Rich.

 

[Randy V]

I don't want to sound contentious, but we shouldn't perpetuate any myths. When Elford said "we" are approaching 240 I really think he meant himself and the other 917 drivers.

After re-reviewing the video with a full cup of coffee in me - I believe you are correct.
upon viewing it again - I actually find Elford as being somewhat pretentious in bragging up his own program while narrating a piece specifically about Sadler's GT40.

As much as to say - Yes the GT is fast, but my 917K and I are much much faster...
Lets see - who won Lemans in 1969 and what were they driving?

 

[Dave-SPFGT40]

After reading all that I am reading ... I don't think I would want to try hit 200 mph anymore... I did at first... I hit 170 mph (as read on my Navigation) But I think I will pass on 200... I have hit 189 mph in a Porchse GT3, and it felt like I was driving a handa civic... LOL!! But I love my SPF2202 and would trade it for anything...

 

[Ron Earp]

BTW, not to insult your friends car but the S4S was just the last incarnation of the 70's wedge that the first esprit was.

I was a Turbo Esprit owner for a couple of years and I enjoyed the car. At that time I worked on quite a few other Turbo Esprits around the area from an S2 to the twin turbo V8, the last version they produced. However, I have seen many self-built cars that were better put together than an Esprit.

A Lotus Esprit is an iconic car in its own right. But it is a supercar of yesteryear that was designed and produced on a shoestring budget. Those underpinnings show when you have a close look at the vehicle - from the early cars to the last version. Still cool cars though and I like them.

 

[Dave-SPFGT40]

Re: SPF vs Ford GT

I know this is tread jump but I am willing to bet that a pan underneath the engine of a GT40 and all the way back to the rear would knock the CD way down and increase speed and gas mileage. There is way to much pressure under the rear deck lid and I feel considerable amount is buffeting up from underneath the car.

Thanks for the heads up Dave! How did your car feel at 170? I have had mine to 165 which with my ring and pinion is 6200 RPM with 15 inch avons, it felt good but sounded like the motor was doing 10,000 rpm. What RPM where to doing at that speed?

Cliff I open road raced with a guy who is not on this forum, his name is John Tiemann, he is trying to bust the 200 MPH flying mile with his car. He encountered many problems and once left the road, unhurt but still OFF the road. He has an Australian build 40 with Porsche transaxle with cooling for the long distance we race. He added the diffusers from the GT on his car which made it stable. I have pictures which I will post.

Car felt pretty stable at 170 but LOUD !! I dont know if I would have the balls to go any faster unless the road was super flat and nothing on my sides... Can't remember exactly what RPM I was at cuz I was looking at my Navi (for my speed) and trying to consentrate on the road... But I think around 4.5 to 5K ...?? But where do I get those diffusers from?? I think they would mak a big difference... does anyone know??

 

[Jack Houpe]

Dave I could PM you his phone number if you want to call him, he is a great guy. He lives in Texas.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Sooooooooo, again, I'm wondering here who is speaking from first hand experience with going 200+? It's easy to be an arm chair speed demon.....I think that it's not until you've got some experience with it that a person has a real appreciation for the challenges of it. 200+ is way, way different than 150.....

I give up.

 

[roaldin]

I remember being told that someone took an RF to an Airbase in Aus' and was clocked at 186 mph. Not 200 but its getting up there.

Realistic opportunities to try for such speeds are pretty few and far between here I think, legally anyway.
Even a really fast car takes a bit of time to get to 200mph and stop again. That 1300 bhp Veilside car took about 13.7 seconds to hit 300kph to get the street car record at that time.

I don't think there are many tracks in Aus' that would be suitable for 200+.
Where I'm from (Tas') there are certainly no suitable tracks which means - open road (and there isn't much of that that doesn't have corners in it). Publishing proof (video) of a car doing that speed on an open road has proven to be problematic for others over the years...

There is quite a bit of video around of people who've joined the 200 club illegally. I doubt many of them would admit to it (other than anonymously) on a public forum though and remaining anonymous can be quite difficult now.

There are regular top speed runs where they approach those sort of speeds in the UK aren't there?
Any GT40s run in those?

You should check out that wheelie clip - insane!

Not saying it's easy Cliff, nor that anyone should try it, just that there are quite a few people out there who've done it in some weird and wonderful cars (and bikes).
Personally I think I'd rather do it in my GT40 (with some serious thought put into it) than do it in my GT-R, or than do 270mph in a 1930s Mercedes - Mercedes-Benz in motorsport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

I like the Esprit too, but...

There are young guys out there having all sorts of fun and taking all sorts of STUPID risks while their Grandpa's are sitting under their shawls gnashing their gums and arguing about politics all the while complaining about how PC kid's are getting today and how some birdman fell into a carbon footprint... (is there a tongue in cheek smiley?)

Here's one now - YouTube - 228 MPH + hyabusa turbo.

Lest we forget what life can be - The World's Fastest Indian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - fabulous story!

Tim.

 

[roaldin]

As for how hard it is in a Porsche turbo, here's a clip from a UK vmax day- YouTube - RUF CTR vs RUF RGT2

There's a Fifth gear episode that shows Tiff taking a ride in one of them with a kid that looks about 16 and hitting about 195 mph.
I think it may be linked to the Fifth gear Lotus episodes mentioned by Rich, which BTW showed a guy doing 206 MPH in a Sierra while driving with one hand (2nd clip)...

I think that SPF looked great!


Tim.

 

[Dave-SPFGT40]

Dave I could PM you his phone number if you want to call him, he is a great guy. He lives in Texas.

Yes Jack, i will appreciate that.....