Police/public relationship in the U.S.

[Larry L.]

...You'll climb back into your stockade and reprise Gun Weekly fooling yourself that you're going to Save America...

You're at odds with The Founders on that, Keith. They thought I (together with m-i-l-l-i-o-n-s of others) in fact could...and would if push were to come to shove somewhere down the road.

You have to remember the Russians had tanks, and air power, and all the rest and they were run out of Af'stan by the Mujahideen, were they not?

In any event, I strongly doubt even a small number of U.S. troops would ever obey orders to attack their fellow citizens.

 

[Larry L.]

The latest news on the OP topic now is that Brown fit the description of a suspect in a theft/robbery that had occurred in a store 2 hours before wherein he'd supposedly roughed up a store clerk...and that's why he'd been detained. STORE VIDEO of that incident appears to show Brown in the store wearing the same red cap, etc., that he was wearing when he was detained.

"Film at eleven"...

 

[Larry L.]

The latest news on the OP topic now is that Brown fit the description of a suspect in a theft/robbery that had occurred in a store 2 hours before wherein he'd supposedly roughed up a store clerk...and that's why he'd been detained. STORE VIDEO of that incident appears to show Brown in the store wearing the same red cap, etc., that he was wearing when he was detained.

"Film at eleven"...

NOW the police have 'back tracked' and said the officer who shot Brown was unaware of the radio broadcast re: the robbery...and therefore supposedly wasn't aware of the description of the suspect. Instead it's NOW being said that Brown had been detained for "blocking traffic"...however that came about... :huh:

 

[Doug S.]

Oh...well, that's different! If he was blocking traffic then he needed to be shot...:thumbsdown:

This is just a case of bad judgement by a cop...but what a penalty a young man paid for that lapse in judgement. The issue here for me is the use of deadly force just because a young man may have refused to obey an order by a police officer...sure, that makes it OK to kill the person who dared not display blind obedience, right?

WRONG!!!!! That cop made himself judge and jury...except that no jury would have been allowed to impose a death penalty for that young man's infractions; only a renegade cop is "entitled" to do that....

Doug

 

[Larry L.]

None of us knows what prompted the shooting yet. None of us were there.

What we "know" about the whole thing is based on various conflicting stmts made by this-and-that individual who was interviewed here-and-there.

At this point anyone who comes to a 'this-is-how-it-is' conclusion is as 'all wet' as Sharpton was when he immediately championed Twana Brawley w/o really knowing fact-one.

'Best to wait 'til an impartial investigation is concluded and the findings made public before 'passing final judgment'.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

I agree with Larry. There is no impartiality at this point, there is no complete story. We all need to wait until that is available.

 

[marc]

The rioting is the real issue here, not the unjustness perceived by the victims family. During those riots the police did not kill a single person few arrests were made, and the media, AND OUR PRESIDENT, were trying to make a mountain from a mole hill.
I did get a kick out of Al Jazzera reporters targeted with tear gas and rubber bullets.

Pete they really are out to get you.
Antisemitism never died, it just hid in dark holes until Chaos and Anarchy have given this ugly weed growth. Soon it will be all "infidels" that will be cleansed from Allah's world. Tomorrow my 80 yr old mother will be buying her first gun. It has come to this...

 

[Doug S.]

At this point anyone who comes to a 'this-is-how-it-is' conclusion is as 'all wet' as Sharpton was when he immediately championed Twana Brawley w/o really knowing fact-one.

Correct about this single incident...but arguable about the trend for the law enforcement community to adopt military-style weaponry and equipment (most SWAT teams have a vehicle that looks very much like an APC), but shame on the law-enforcement community even more for having adopted the military attitude that "collateral damage" is acceptable, even expected.

For me this is a much more global issue than just this one incident. There should be ZERO tolerance for "collateral damage" from the one group we try to teach our kids is trustworthy!!!! "...to serve and protect..." Really??

Doug

 

[Keith]

Doug, cut it out. You've been reading my posts. It's unheard of. What will they think of you now? :stunned:

 

[Larry L.]

Correct about this single incident...but arguable about the trend for the law enforcement community to adopt military-style weaponry and equipment (most SWAT teams have a vehicle that looks very much like an APC), but shame on the law-enforcement community even more for having adopted the military attitude that "collateral damage" is acceptable, even expected.

For me this is a much more global issue than just this one incident. There should be ZERO tolerance for "collateral damage" from the one group we try to teach our kids is trustworthy!!!! "...to serve and protect..." Really??

Doug

In principle I agree with you 100%...but, I'm sure you know (and could give examples yourself) there are circumstances wherein, no matter how cautious/measured a given response might be in this-or-that scenario, some 'innocent' is likely to be hurt...and if/when no one is it's more often due to dumb luck or divine providence than anything else.

 

[marc]

Sorry in this age of instantaneous judgmental precedent, yall are f'd up. Amazing turn of events as more of the truths come out.

 

[Keith]

And in go the National Guard. It was inevitable I suppose. At least we have seen the real citizens standing up to the looters, what's left are the criminals, although if the NG go in too hard, they'll likely become more numerous.

 

[Robert May Eng.]

If the guy in the OP had shown that officer one ounce of respect non of this would have happened. This only occurs where ethnics become the majority and are allowed to form ghetto`s , take the same people and integrate them into society and it just never happens. I for one would not want to police an area like this. Short of putting a prison type fence around these place`s and chucking food over them to keep the population from starving what is the answer? These places breed shit and trouble. We had the Brixton riots , they had little or nothing to with the original incident but more to do with the local ethnics total lack of respect for law and order. Even to this day our own police force know of masses of criminal activity amongst these groups but have to adopt a softly softly approach just in case it all kicks off again.Its fucking wrong, there should be respect for the law and its officers.

1981 Brixton riot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bob

 

[Doug S.]

The independent autopsy report says that Brown was shot 6 times, twice in the head.
That says to me it was an act of anger, not just an attempt to gain/restore order.
Excessive force, to be sure...an act of rage!
It has gotten worse instead of better...what a fiasco!!!

Doug

 

[Larry L.]

And in go the National Guard. It was inevitable I suppose. At least we have seen the real citizens standing up to the looters, what's left are the criminals, although if the NG go in too hard, they'll likely become more numerous.

Where this whole thing is right now reminds me all too much of the events that led up to the Watts riots.

Do you remember the Watts riots (L.A.) back in 1965 or so? THEY started over a minor traffic stop that residents escalated into a major confrontation (see below). 'Ended up totally destroying the whole area. Many businesses moved out afterward and haven't returned to this day. Talk about defecating in your own tent...

'Segment taken from Wiki:

"On the evening of Wednesday, August 11, 1965, 21-year-old Marquette Frye, an African American man behind the wheel of his mother's 1955 Buick, was pulled over for reckless driving by white California Highway Patrol motorcycle officer Lee Minikus.<SUP id=cite_ref-5 class=reference>[5]</SUP> After administering a field sobriety test, Minikus placed Frye under arrest and radioed for his vehicle to be impounded.<SUP id=cite_ref-6 class=reference>[6]</SUP> Marquette's brother Ronald, a passenger in the vehicle, walked to their house nearby, bringing their mother, Rena Price, back with him.
When Rena Price reached the intersection of Avalon Boulevard and 116th Street that evening, she scolded Frye about drinking and driving, he recalled in a 1985 interview with the Orlando Sentinel.<SUP id=cite_ref-7 class=reference>[7]</SUP> The situation quickly escalated: Someone shoved Price, Frye was struck, Price jumped an officer, another officer pulled out a shotgun. Backup police officers attempted to arrest Frye by using physical force to subdue him. After rumors spread that the police had roughed Price up and kicked a pregnant woman, angry mobs formed.<SUP id=cite_ref-8 class=reference>[8]</SUP><SUP id=cite_ref-9 class=reference>[9]</SUP> As the situation intensified, growing crowds of local residents watching the exchange began yelling and throwing objects at the police officers.<SUP id=cite_ref-10 class=reference>[10]</SUP> Frye's mother and brother fought with the officers and they were eventually arrested along with Marquette Frye..."...and everything hit the fan from there...

About 30 years later, L.A.'s black community rioted again (Rodney King, remember?) with much the same result.

History shows businesses and/or properties in large black neighborhoods in L.A. (elsewhere as well for that matter) come with a big target painted on 'em. 'May not be "p.c." to say that - but it's true. As I said, history bears witness.

Will we see history repeat itself in Freguson? Your guess is as good as mine...

(Now, how long do you suppose it'll be before someone calls me a "RACIST!!!" or "BIGOT!!!" or "HATER!!!" for having stated the above? :squint

 

[Keith]

The independent autopsy report says that Brown was shot 6 times, twice in the head.
That says to me it was an act of anger, not just an attempt to gain/restore order.
Excessive force, to be sure...an act of rage!
It has gotten worse instead of better...what a fiasco!!!

Doug

And, from a distance too....

 

[Larry L.]

The independent autopsy report says that Brown was shot 6 times, twice in the head.
That says to me it was an act of anger, not just an attempt to gain/restore order.
Excessive force, to be sure...an act of rage!
It has gotten worse instead of better...what a fiasco!!!

Doug

And, from a distance too....

It's beginning to look like what the two witnesses I mentioned said had happened did happen. But, without knowing Wilson's (the LEO's) side of the story, we're still in the dark with regard to the whole story.

 

[Terry Oxandale]

If the guy in the OP had shown that officer one ounce of respect non of this would have happened.

1981 Brixton riot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bob

I would qualify that statement. When another human being is provided the capacity to use lethal force with his given authority, and paid for such, the average citizen should not be the one solely tasked to deescalate a situation. The average citizen is generally not the one capable of lethal force, and has not been paid or trained to be a "peace officer". When it comes to confrontations with the law enforcement, which start out as disagreements in opinion, being dead right is not an alternative to being right. Yes, the citizen still has some responsibility to deal with law enforcement in a civil manner, but blind obedience is not reasonable in all cases. Law enforcement expects the blind obedience, and will levy a price on you or me when that expectation is not met. My greatest concern is police now days have no capacity for dealing with the word "no" other than with brute force. In days of unquestioned respect for police, that was not an issue. But law enforcement as well as public prosecutors no longer warrant unquestioned respect if for no other reason than their lack of accountability for their past behavior. I guess my growing up with the Andy Griffith Show was too influential and idealistic for my own good.

 

[Robert May Eng.]

With respect Terry nobody on here actually knows the nuts and bolts of the situation, we are all speculating. What I can see though is a weary time served officer that has flipped , he probably has to deal with difficult arseholes every day of his working life and just had his fill of it. Perhaps it would pay to give these officers more time out from street duty.and put them on other tasks. I am not condoning what he has done but sometimes just sometimes enough is enough, we are not machines.

Bob

 

[Larry L.]

...he probably has to deal with difficult arseholes every day of his working life and just had his fill of it...I am not condoning what he has done but...sometimes enough is enough, we are not machines.

That very thought has crossed my mind a time or two; not only regardng this particular situation, but regarding others as well.