PORSCHE and AUDI to limit cars at LeMans
- Thread starter TA152
- Start date
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
It seems the FIA justify their existence by introducing a new rule each month, they have ruined F1 with silly rules and are now setting about ruining WEC.
Haven't they heard "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
It's all about "sustainability" Pete. Yes, I know it's your favourite subject :laugh: These damned manufacturers have ruined global motorsport and have now made it nigh on financially impossible for privateers to compete even if they were allowed to by the stupid rules... :furious:
Charlie Farley
Supporter
Judging by the recent emissions interpretation ' mistake '
they should be hitting close to 400 mph next year,
down the Mulsanne...
:lol:
they should be hitting close to 400 mph next year,
down the Mulsanne...
:lol:
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
All that means is two more absolutely boring porsche GT3 OR similar shiiiite
cars will be allowed to make the start, and invariably because they are from a lower level team they have much more limited spares and know how and end up retiring in the first 6 hours. Tell me I'm wrong, but I know I'm not. I've seen it over and over again. And again. Other times they spin off in bad weather simply because they don't have the techno as part of their team package to tell their drivers to slow down.
:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:
cars will be allowed to make the start, and invariably because they are from a lower level team they have much more limited spares and know how and end up retiring in the first 6 hours. Tell me I'm wrong, but I know I'm not. I've seen it over and over again. And again. Other times they spin off in bad weather simply because they don't have the techno as part of their team package to tell their drivers to slow down.
:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
I've never been to Lemans (need to) but the opposite is happening with our premier 24 hour race at Daytone has seen the opposite -- more makes, cool cars. Aston, Porsche, Ferrari, Chevy, Ford, Mazda, Lambo, Audi.......cool racing.
Look at the situation in WEC GTE PRO and AM. You have literally only Ferrari, Aston Martin, Porsche and a solitary Corvette. In P2, 90% of the cars are powered by Nissan. In P1 Porsche & Audi have dominated everything with Audi now very much on the back foot because the rules have hog tied them, Toyota last year's surprise champions were heavily off the pace and extremely lacklustre. Nissan didn't show their faces again following the Le Mans debacle and privateers Rebellion could barely keep in front of the P2's. It's doubtful whether they'll be back next year either as their engine supplier, AER, haven't got a suitable engine as they have to be stock block derivatives. How Porsche is going to wangle that I have no idea.
WEC has turned into a processional farce....and it's happened because of hugely escalated costs and like F1, has become a manufacture driven and complex rules series with all the budgetary implications that implies...
WEC has turned into a processional farce....and it's happened because of hugely escalated costs and like F1, has become a manufacture driven and complex rules series with all the budgetary implications that implies...
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Whatever Keef says , its about right.
20 yrs of Racemet in 2016 so I guess I've seen a bit of Le Mans.
In 2001 the ACO asked if I would take over control of the two Safety Cars - which I refused to do.
There will be approximately 85 cars for the test weekend and only 55 will make the grid
so yes, its teams from the lower order will be bumped up to take the start now that Audi and Porsche will only run a pair of LMP1 WEC cars. The teams that get the slot at 54 and 55 will never run in the WEC (no matter how boring you think it is) because they are contrived to run at the 24hr du Le Mans only and thats all because the cost of running WEC is so huge it would never happen for them. These are the guys who think its great to try and double stint their tyres and end up with huge accidents out on the circuit causing excesive safety car periods
while the marshalls risk everything trying to clean up the piste again (Stephen Tonks - tell me if I'm wrong - It's what you do )
Out of interest one individual hazarded a guess how much Audi paid to run at Le Mans in 2012 and a figure of $85 million came up. I think that was a two car entry year and the three cars entries came up in 2013 though without looking back I cannot be sure. $85million to win one race. Fuck a doodle do.
Make of it what you will. The cars down the lower orders frequently get in the way because they are amateur teams and amateur drivers. I listen to the three, now to be two next year , Audi car drivers , the corresponding engineers talking back to them, Ralf Juttner, and the MRTC radio technician. When I speak, all the operational RT circuit hears me excepting the drivers. The information I send is relayed to the drivers by the engineers which is a confirmation that each driver receives my information (unless its something simple they don't need to know (like what time the sun sets , or how long will twilight last) All of it is easy enough but the lower teams don't necessarily have this sort of 'instant' information and even if they had I think it's a case of info-overload which seems to be a bit dangerous. A good case was Smoking Joe driving in the the GTR OR Williams in 97 or 99. I got him to reduce to almost walking pace after the second chicane on Mulsanne due to v heavy rain. On TV they comment he had a fuel problem and the Porsche 911's went by him into the right angled corner (Virage de Mulsanne?) but they never exited the corner as they were destroyed on the armco barrier. Smoking Joe went serenely by them and accelerated again as he came out of the heavy rain.
I'm 69 next year and if Audi want me again then great for one more season - but if not - what the hell. Its been a lot of fun.
20 yrs of Racemet in 2016 so I guess I've seen a bit of Le Mans.
In 2001 the ACO asked if I would take over control of the two Safety Cars - which I refused to do.
There will be approximately 85 cars for the test weekend and only 55 will make the grid
so yes, its teams from the lower order will be bumped up to take the start now that Audi and Porsche will only run a pair of LMP1 WEC cars. The teams that get the slot at 54 and 55 will never run in the WEC (no matter how boring you think it is) because they are contrived to run at the 24hr du Le Mans only and thats all because the cost of running WEC is so huge it would never happen for them. These are the guys who think its great to try and double stint their tyres and end up with huge accidents out on the circuit causing excesive safety car periods
while the marshalls risk everything trying to clean up the piste again (Stephen Tonks - tell me if I'm wrong - It's what you do )
Out of interest one individual hazarded a guess how much Audi paid to run at Le Mans in 2012 and a figure of $85 million came up. I think that was a two car entry year and the three cars entries came up in 2013 though without looking back I cannot be sure. $85million to win one race. Fuck a doodle do.
Make of it what you will. The cars down the lower orders frequently get in the way because they are amateur teams and amateur drivers. I listen to the three, now to be two next year , Audi car drivers , the corresponding engineers talking back to them, Ralf Juttner, and the MRTC radio technician. When I speak, all the operational RT circuit hears me excepting the drivers. The information I send is relayed to the drivers by the engineers which is a confirmation that each driver receives my information (unless its something simple they don't need to know (like what time the sun sets , or how long will twilight last) All of it is easy enough but the lower teams don't necessarily have this sort of 'instant' information and even if they had I think it's a case of info-overload which seems to be a bit dangerous. A good case was Smoking Joe driving in the the GTR OR Williams in 97 or 99. I got him to reduce to almost walking pace after the second chicane on Mulsanne due to v heavy rain. On TV they comment he had a fuel problem and the Porsche 911's went by him into the right angled corner (Virage de Mulsanne?) but they never exited the corner as they were destroyed on the armco barrier. Smoking Joe went serenely by them and accelerated again as he came out of the heavy rain.
I'm 69 next year and if Audi want me again then great for one more season - but if not - what the hell. Its been a lot of fun.
Last edited:
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Mesa - I think you are on the money. So many rely on gaffa tape to hold their cars in one piece.
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
If I remember rightly, that was also used on GT40s at LE Mans
Over headlight cover after bump at the start
Ian
David,
What is the solution? 10 car grids at Lemans or what? The backmarkers don't want to duct tape their cars together, but they need money to prevent such acts of desperation. So how to improve the situation? Seems at every turn it take money to race, yet there isnt enough money in racing to be had to properly fill the grid.
What is the solution? 10 car grids at Lemans or what? The backmarkers don't want to duct tape their cars together, but they need money to prevent such acts of desperation. So how to improve the situation? Seems at every turn it take money to race, yet there isnt enough money in racing to be had to properly fill the grid.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
I think there has to be a minimum standard for drivers and certainly actual experience of
6 and then 12 hour races with signatures from the Clerk of the Course at these previous meetings. The actual race has 55 cars to make up the grid on Saturday afternoon so
maybe a handicap to allow the back markers to be somewhere near the front on Sunday afternoon - ie the Audi's and Porsche have to race the same distance as a back marker achieves in 24 hrs but only have say 22xx hrs /mins hours to achieve the same distance, all depending on the times achieved in the Vortest/practise two weeks previously.
That way it's not a total domination by VAG/Toyota, or what ever LMP1 is running first at the test.
6 and then 12 hour races with signatures from the Clerk of the Course at these previous meetings. The actual race has 55 cars to make up the grid on Saturday afternoon so
maybe a handicap to allow the back markers to be somewhere near the front on Sunday afternoon - ie the Audi's and Porsche have to race the same distance as a back marker achieves in 24 hrs but only have say 22xx hrs /mins hours to achieve the same distance, all depending on the times achieved in the Vortest/practise two weeks previously.
That way it's not a total domination by VAG/Toyota, or what ever LMP1 is running first at the test.
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