Price increase for Superformance GT's
- Thread starter Kenny J
- Start date
I visited Hillbank on Jan 2nd and got to meet Lance (super guy!). He presented me with a price list showing a base price of $69,900, and said that on January 10th, the price would be going up to $79,900. 
Sounds like the Las Vegas dealer is tacking on a bit of additional profit? Either that, or it's an apples-and-oranges comparison, because the price sheet has a bunch of extra-cost options, so perhaps your quote was for a 'loaded' car?
I remember feeling excited when word first circulated that Superformance would be offering up a GT40 built to the same (ultra-high) standard as their Cobra, with a sub-$50,000 price for a painted roller. Superformance achieved their tremendous success in the Cobra marketplace by offering unsurpassed quality with tremendous value. Nobody can argue against the quality of the new GT40, but with an 80% price increase since the first announcement, the notion of 'value' seems to have gone by the wayside...
This is a natural byproduct of having no real competitor in the marketplace, except for CAV, which arguably exists on a different, lower level. But just because you *can* do something doesn't necessarily mean it's wise to do so.
I just hope that the regular and dramatic price increases don't backfire and kill demand. This sort of thing (done by individual Ford dealers) is what killed the Ford GT project, with only a fraction of the intended number of cars built/sold because they were so 'aggresively' priced. Plenty of eager, potential customers were turned off by the fact that dealers were cheerfully selling the cars to the highest bidder, sometimes at double the MSRP. Once the initial gotta-have-it-no-matter-what crowd was satisfied, the rest (who would gladly have paid a 'reasonable' price initially) were nowhere to be found, having turned their back on the whole thing in disgust.
I am filled with respect for the whole Superformance experiment of building a true and proper GT40 replica, rather than a simple 'homage' car. But I am saddened to see it getting progressively further out of my own reach, and presumably the reach of many other people as well. While the increased profits in the short term will no doubt be great for the bottom line, I fear that the long-term ramifications of this decision could ultimately be as harmful to the Superformance GT40 program (and thus the long-term profits of the company) as the price-gouging by Ford dealers proved to be for the Ford GT.
Sounds like the Las Vegas dealer is tacking on a bit of additional profit? Either that, or it's an apples-and-oranges comparison, because the price sheet has a bunch of extra-cost options, so perhaps your quote was for a 'loaded' car?
I remember feeling excited when word first circulated that Superformance would be offering up a GT40 built to the same (ultra-high) standard as their Cobra, with a sub-$50,000 price for a painted roller. Superformance achieved their tremendous success in the Cobra marketplace by offering unsurpassed quality with tremendous value. Nobody can argue against the quality of the new GT40, but with an 80% price increase since the first announcement, the notion of 'value' seems to have gone by the wayside...
This is a natural byproduct of having no real competitor in the marketplace, except for CAV, which arguably exists on a different, lower level. But just because you *can* do something doesn't necessarily mean it's wise to do so.
I just hope that the regular and dramatic price increases don't backfire and kill demand. This sort of thing (done by individual Ford dealers) is what killed the Ford GT project, with only a fraction of the intended number of cars built/sold because they were so 'aggresively' priced. Plenty of eager, potential customers were turned off by the fact that dealers were cheerfully selling the cars to the highest bidder, sometimes at double the MSRP. Once the initial gotta-have-it-no-matter-what crowd was satisfied, the rest (who would gladly have paid a 'reasonable' price initially) were nowhere to be found, having turned their back on the whole thing in disgust.
I am filled with respect for the whole Superformance experiment of building a true and proper GT40 replica, rather than a simple 'homage' car. But I am saddened to see it getting progressively further out of my own reach, and presumably the reach of many other people as well. While the increased profits in the short term will no doubt be great for the bottom line, I fear that the long-term ramifications of this decision could ultimately be as harmful to the Superformance GT40 program (and thus the long-term profits of the company) as the price-gouging by Ford dealers proved to be for the Ford GT.
As one of the guys that got my GT40 (P2133) at the initial price of $65K, I too am saddened to see the price hike. I'm not sure of all the reasons for such a substantial increase. I certainly hope it is not opportunism on the part of SPF. There is also the issue of underestimating what it would actually take to produce one of these cars. Maybe they had to build a few to find out they couldn't build them that cheaply. I can say for certain that the Dollar has taken a huge hit against the Rand as well as all other currencies. As the CEO of a company that does business internationally, I can attest to the nightmare caused by dramatic fluctuations in exchange rates. HOWEVER, if the exchange rate is the reason, we should see the price go back down if/when the dollar recovers.
I doubt that the price will go down no matter what happens to the exchange rate as the value of the cars sold at the higher price would be worth less. The buyers would be somewhat miffed.
There was a big hooha in SA when Merc were asked why they did not dorp their prices after an exchange rate fluctuation.
Regards
There was a big hooha in SA when Merc were asked why they did not dorp their prices after an exchange rate fluctuation.
Regards
I would guess they may have hiked the price because of the amount of interest shown and the number of orders they've taken......
It looks like they've tapped into a whole new market because they are essentially offering a finished top quality car and a "continuation" one at that. They hit the ground running and just scooped up the "I want to own a (pukka) GT40 before I die" market.
Why should they sell it cheaply? It's the same as any other "product" in our free market society. Gouge it until the pips squeak then back off a little....
This situation may well change of course.........
It looks like they've tapped into a whole new market because they are essentially offering a finished top quality car and a "continuation" one at that. They hit the ground running and just scooped up the "I want to own a (pukka) GT40 before I die" market.
Why should they sell it cheaply? It's the same as any other "product" in our free market society. Gouge it until the pips squeak then back off a little....
This situation may well change of course.........
It's like Keith said, there's more demand than supply so they're able to
charge the current price until the demand drops etc.... If the price
continue's to increase, other manufacturers will jump into the market
seeing a demand and chance to make a profit. This will force S.F. to
alter they're $ if the demand switches to others. Sorry for the long
winded post. Thanks!
Mark
charge the current price until the demand drops etc.... If the price
continue's to increase, other manufacturers will jump into the market
seeing a demand and chance to make a profit. This will force S.F. to
alter they're $ if the demand switches to others. Sorry for the long
winded post. Thanks!
Mark
The price on the MK1 and MK2 is $79900 as from 10 January. When we started on this project over four years ago our target price was "late Fifties". This got out and was then touted as a final price( not by us) When we started getting close to production and, in order to get a feel for what the market potential would be for our original type of build, we built and shipped two cars, one to Carlisle and one to Europe. We had to come up with a price then and there and, as best we could work out, it was $69900. This held good for all of last year's orders. In ramping up to full production and getting our BOM fully sorted we found that our costs were higher than we anticipated and had to make an adjustment to enable us to justify continuing with it.
We have been around a long time and intend staying around for a lot longer. Every person who really knows just how more complicated and detailed our car actually is finds it difficult to believe that we can actually produce it at the price and volumes we do. We are confident that, just like the cobra replica market, there is enough room for a wide variety of options and that we are happy with the niche we have chosen within that market. We have a number of original owners ordering so that they can use our continuation car without risking their million dollar one. Alan Mann, who built and ran originals for Ford, in the sixties, has even ordered a MK1 in the UK.
To close, there is no way this car, built to our spec as well as licenced by Safir as a genuine GT40, can be reproduced and distributed through a quality and proven dealer network for less! I hope that this answers some of your concerns Kind Regards Jim Price
We have been around a long time and intend staying around for a lot longer. Every person who really knows just how more complicated and detailed our car actually is finds it difficult to believe that we can actually produce it at the price and volumes we do. We are confident that, just like the cobra replica market, there is enough room for a wide variety of options and that we are happy with the niche we have chosen within that market. We have a number of original owners ordering so that they can use our continuation car without risking their million dollar one. Alan Mann, who built and ran originals for Ford, in the sixties, has even ordered a MK1 in the UK.
To close, there is no way this car, built to our spec as well as licenced by Safir as a genuine GT40, can be reproduced and distributed through a quality and proven dealer network for less! I hope that this answers some of your concerns Kind Regards Jim Price
As stated by one of our other members, once the price of used Ford GT's drops to the range where it comes close to the price of the SPF, I think the Ford product will be quite attractive. By all accounts they are a very capable car, just not to my understanding eligible for vintage racing. There will probably always be a market for those "continuation" cars for the racing scene, but IMHO there must be a point at which the enthusiast who is looking for an opportunity to drive this legend on the street decides that the newest of the Ford GT's represents a better value.
My $.02 worth, YMMV.
Doug
My $.02 worth, YMMV.
Doug
Gregg, No SPF gt40 has been sold for that. $69900 was the price up to January 10!
To:Jim Price at High-Tech
Jim, I want to thank you for your recent participation on this Superformance GT40 forum. We know that we are now getting information on this new vehicle "direct from the horse's mouth". This is extremely valuable to persons
considering the purchase of this +$100,000.00 completed vehicle.
Mike Norvilas
SPO1393
GT40P2117
Jim, I want to thank you for your recent participation on this Superformance GT40 forum. We know that we are now getting information on this new vehicle "direct from the horse's mouth". This is extremely valuable to persons
considering the purchase of this +$100,000.00 completed vehicle.
Mike Norvilas
SPO1393
GT40P2117
Steve Briscoe
Lifetime Supporter
A few ramblings-
1)It's a real GT40 licensed by Safir and constructed using state of the art international standards for quality and tolerances.
2)I wonder what the price would be if Porsche licensed a continuation of the 917?
3)No doubt about it. It's a real drag when the price escalates beyond the budget. Been there and done that too many times early on.
1)It's a real GT40 licensed by Safir and constructed using state of the art international standards for quality and tolerances.
2)I wonder what the price would be if Porsche licensed a continuation of the 917?
3)No doubt about it. It's a real drag when the price escalates beyond the budget. Been there and done that too many times early on.
The price increase just makes the CAV look that much more appealing I think.
The basic reality is that any GT40 built in 2007 is by no means "original" despite whatever tenuous claim some third party has over the name "GT40." The original GT40 was built between 1964 and 1969 and no original car has been built since. Some of today's replicas are very, very good and just as beautiful and a joy to drive but they're not an original. The market clearly reflects this also - that's precisely why you can buy a SPF or a CAV for sub $100,000 while an original car goes for $2M or more.
It may be that CAV will follow suit with a price increase but I hope not. At the current pricing, the CAV mono stainless steal is an absolute bargain. If you spend time with one you really begin to appreciate the phenomenal level of design and build quality. For example, the welding on the ss chassis is absolute perfection - a work of art.
Net, good to see the competition between the various manufacturers, and, these cars are going to be very expensive by their very nature (hand built, limited production). Just hoping they don't get so expensive that people don't actually get out and drive them!!
The basic reality is that any GT40 built in 2007 is by no means "original" despite whatever tenuous claim some third party has over the name "GT40." The original GT40 was built between 1964 and 1969 and no original car has been built since. Some of today's replicas are very, very good and just as beautiful and a joy to drive but they're not an original. The market clearly reflects this also - that's precisely why you can buy a SPF or a CAV for sub $100,000 while an original car goes for $2M or more.
It may be that CAV will follow suit with a price increase but I hope not. At the current pricing, the CAV mono stainless steal is an absolute bargain. If you spend time with one you really begin to appreciate the phenomenal level of design and build quality. For example, the welding on the ss chassis is absolute perfection - a work of art.
Net, good to see the competition between the various manufacturers, and, these cars are going to be very expensive by their very nature (hand built, limited production). Just hoping they don't get so expensive that people don't actually get out and drive them!!
:lurker:
Old news. Go to http://www.gt40s.com/forum/superformance-gt40s/20108-price-increase.htmlKenny J said:
Did they not produce the 4,500 units originally planned?Mike Drew said:
This isn't going to happen to any degree for many, many years. The Ford GT's, because of their price, are primarily a collector car and, like a Ferrari or Lamborghini, will be babied, coddled and driven in only limited amounts. For the majority to the great majority, market prices will remain far above the "off-the-lot" price of the SPF GT for a very long time to come, perhaps upwards of 10-15 years if the market price depreciation of used Ferraris is any indication.Doug Sainlar said:
They are a far superior car to the GT40 and the SPF "continuation." Ford assigned its most brilliant engineers for the GT's design and development. The internals are, in almost all respects, entirely different from the original. The Ford engineers started with a clean sheet of paper and designed the car to 21st century technology and materials. Plus, the car was as thoroughly developed and tested as any factory production car before introduction. (Much more so, given the performance envelope that it was designed for.) The car is as much of a "turn-key" car as any production car today, and your Ford dealer "down the street" can provide parts and service. Although electronically governed at 205 mph, the base car is capable of going into the two-hundred-and-teens, as was discovered with the pre-production prototypes. And the car will stay "planted" at those speeds; the SPF GT may take a lot of tweaking before you dare go that fast with it (assuming your choice of engine/driveline is capable of getting it there).Doug Sainlar said:
(Oh, and the Ford GT has a heater, too
)Pardon the rant but, like Mike, I was sorely disappointed when this car was actually marketed so much higher than the projected, pre-introduction "sticker" price.
It's my understanding that none of the replica/reproduction/"continuation" cars are elgible in the vintage/historical racing organizations in the U.S. as these organizations are intended for vintage and historical race cars only, at least insofar as I am aware. A few months ago I communicated with one of the officers of one of the largest, HMSA (Historic Motor Sports Association), that has a couple of events in my area every year (they are also the group that puts on the Monterey Historics) about this issue and he very politely said nada, nyet, uh-uh, no way.Doug Sainlar said:
This may change at some distant point in the future, as it would be no great burden on either the racing organization or the hosting track to provide an additional class just for the replica/reproduction cars to run against each other in. But this is just speculation on my part.
Finally, for those of us of "average financial means" that didn't get our down payment to our local SPF dealer by January 10, time is on our side:
The market for 100K+ cars is extremely limited. (How many Porsche 911 Turbos do you regularly see in your neighborhood --- or any neighborhood.) The gotta-have-it-now guys that were able to, or will be able to in the near future, throw down 100K+ for a toy are also an extremely limited population. Within 2 or 3 years the initial pulse of interest will fade away for the SPF product as this market saturates. Hi-Tech Auto has its production cost constraints, and the purchasing market has its financial constraints. A balance will sort out, but probably not for awhile. And perhaps not in the favor of us of "average financial means."
The car is still extremely new, and there are bugs and glitches in it to be sorted out. My local SPF dealer has mentioned problems identified with the ball joints already. And almost fer shure other bugs will appear in the car as a significant number get put together and out on the street, which should be addressed by Hi-Tech Auto in production at the factory over time. No doubt, SPF should resolve any such problems without cost to the purchaser. But there's the aggravation factor dealing with it, and it usually ends up costing you something --- especially if your SPF dealer isn't "down the street."
For now, the wrenchers that are installing the engines and drivelines in the car are pretty much still near the bottom of a steep learning curve in figuring out how to do it, how to do it really right, and how to do it for a smooth and reliable car. For the most part, the cars being put together now and in the foreseeable future are going to be, to some degree, "experimental" cars as the wrenchers learn the ins and outs of doing it right. (Olthoff on the east coast may be an exception, but for most of us his operation isn't going to be practical to use.) Which is to say, the cars "rolling off the lot" later on will be better --- perhaps a lot better --- than the early-production ones.
If you've been reading this forum, there is still great conjecture as to what the best engine is --- out of a horrendous multiplicity of choices --- for the performance envelope of the car. And I don't believe any kind of consensus will be even close to being reached for a long time until a whole bunch of the cars get engined and out on the street and track. And, on part of some (justifiably or not), there's the nagging question of the strength of the ZF transaxles for the bigger engines that will fit the car. So, on the basis of others experiences, those that purchase later will probably be able to make much more intelligent decisions regarding engine choices (although this will always remain "a choice").
What I'm tryin to say with the foregoing is that later cars may very well be several to many thousands of dollars better in quality and practical terms than the current and early-production ones, and missing the "introductory price" may not be such a big deal over the long term and all things considered.
This is how I see it. Others will see if differently, and that's what forums are for.
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So CliffBeer,
What does a new CAV go for these days?
I went SPF over CAV because the CAV price escalated as I was trying to put my "deal" together and the SPF was actually less expensive on paper at the time I bought.
At the time I put a deposit on a SPF it was $65k delivered with A/C and set up for for my desired options. I have a quote from CAV then for close to the same price as the SPF, but then I was told I would have to pay for shipping and customs charges. I chose the SPF because it was closer to the original in design, and, more importantly to me, because I thought the Hi-Tech facility was more capable of delivering the product at a quality level I was expecting. Keep in mind this was early 2005. This was around the time that CAV went under and resurfaced.
I am glad for the decision I made then. I don't know what I would do now.
Regards,
Mike
What does a new CAV go for these days?
I went SPF over CAV because the CAV price escalated as I was trying to put my "deal" together and the SPF was actually less expensive on paper at the time I bought.
At the time I put a deposit on a SPF it was $65k delivered with A/C and set up for for my desired options. I have a quote from CAV then for close to the same price as the SPF, but then I was told I would have to pay for shipping and customs charges. I chose the SPF because it was closer to the original in design, and, more importantly to me, because I thought the Hi-Tech facility was more capable of delivering the product at a quality level I was expecting. Keep in mind this was early 2005. This was around the time that CAV went under and resurfaced.
I am glad for the decision I made then. I don't know what I would do now.
Regards,
Mike
CAV's are around 65 without options ,so probably closer to 70 as most would order it. The SPF is a really nice car and I think worth the money. The CAV is a really nice car and worth the money. Kind of like my Kirkham cobra and an ERA cobra,both nice,one more original, and you pay a premium for that.
Mike Drew said:
I think you are mis-informed with regard to Ford's intent with the GT program. Ford never intended to produce enough cars to satisfy demand at the MSRP. The intent was to reward their best dealers with a car they could (1) use as a halo car to draw people into their dealerships and (2) mark-up and sell at a huge profit. I heard this directly from the sales manager at my local Ford dealer when I spoke with him about being placed on a waiting list for the GT in 2002. The sales manager compared it to Ford's revival of the Thunderbird. A limited production run designed to allow the dealers to extract a markup.
As you say, the overall effect was to sour me on purchasing any car from Ford. Lucky for me, I ran into Fran Hall and learned about Race-Car-Replicas.
I agree with Trond on the GT40 vrs Ford GT issue. I like the old school look and feel. To me the Ford GT is a wonderful supercar and special in its own right ,but no substitute for a GT40. Kind of like a Porsche not being a substitute for my cobra
as an aside,this is the 427 side oiler weber set up I just finished installing in my Kirkham. You have to admit it would look fantastic in a SPF MK11
