SLC 24 Howard Jones
- Thread starter Howard Jones
- Start date
Howard's car is going to be "BOMB proof" sturdy. I doubt anything will ever break on his car. Good thing 'cause he does a lot of track days with NASCARs and those boys might pick on the little guy.
Now, we need to come up with a good nickname for it, PANZER comes to mind but I think is should have an American name since that is where it was born and built.
"Mad Mesa", too late for Howard he's infected.
Now, we need to come up with a good nickname for it, PANZER comes to mind but I think is should have an American name since that is where it was born and built.
"Mad Mesa", too late for Howard he's infected.
Howard Jones
Supporter
"Francine"
Howard Jones
Supporter
Beginning of tail light install. I looked at using the "standard' Dodge pieces and cut out the holes for them. Don't like em. Sorry Fran. My eye keeps being drawn to the simple round lights seen on other race cars and some of the other SLC builders cars. I like the simple clean look but I still wanted to add a little detail. Sooooooooooo............
I filled the holes but left the cleavage using the tried and true cardboard form method, some resin slurry, glass mat, and just a bit of bonddo.
I included in the pictures the stuff I make the slurry with. Mix cabosil with resin until peanut butter consistency and add just a little chopped glass. This really works to fill gaps without excessive bonddo.
I also found these lights. They are inexpensive, LED's, and come with the plugs for 20 bucks each. I like that they add a bit of detail that the all red ones don't. I am thinking of running all four running lights all the time when the headlights are on, use the outboard turn lights only and both stop lights on each side. Here.
http://www.southwestwheel.com/store/p-5220-4-round-glolighttm-stopturntail-lights.aspx
I filled the holes but left the cleavage using the tried and true cardboard form method, some resin slurry, glass mat, and just a bit of bonddo.
I included in the pictures the stuff I make the slurry with. Mix cabosil with resin until peanut butter consistency and add just a little chopped glass. This really works to fill gaps without excessive bonddo.
I also found these lights. They are inexpensive, LED's, and come with the plugs for 20 bucks each. I like that they add a bit of detail that the all red ones don't. I am thinking of running all four running lights all the time when the headlights are on, use the outboard turn lights only and both stop lights on each side. Here.
http://www.southwestwheel.com/store/p-5220-4-round-glolighttm-stopturntail-lights.aspx
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I like it. There are a lot of DOT legal options these days.
Howard. Good job. As of right now I plan on doing something with those lights also, I have a street tail though. Yours is inspiration and thank you for sharing.
Howard Jones
Supporter
Completed tail light enclosures. Here's some pictures.Same cardboard mold but a lot simpler than the fronts.
Now I thinking about the engine room heat exhaust ducts. Look at this picture of a Audi R18. Top bigger duct. Maybe two of these, one on each side at the top of the rear engine cover. Remember mine is glassed in with no window. Just like the R18.
Now I thinking about the engine room heat exhaust ducts. Look at this picture of a Audi R18. Top bigger duct. Maybe two of these, one on each side at the top of the rear engine cover. Remember mine is glassed in with no window. Just like the R18.
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Howard, you are getting into aerodynamics here. Aerodynamics can be a subtle, tricky business. With the best intentions you can get very negative results (Lotus 49, McLaren M8D or Porsche GT1, anyone?).
Perhaps you need to look first at the bigger picture. Is there a problem here? You may be surprised with the answer. If there is a problem, what exactly is it? What are the various solutions to the problem? How have other people solved the problem (e.g.: Gordon Murray, McLaren F1 or Paul Lamar, Chaparral 2)? What are the plusses and minuses of each solution? Go with the solution that has the most benefits and least drawbacks (of course, within budget and time constraints).
Because "aerodramatics" are so tricky, I would analyze the problems and proposed solutions fully and very carefully before doing anything.
I'd like you to be around for a long time, enjoying your SL-C!
Les
Howard Jones
Supporter
Thanks' Les. Me too! The point is to allow heat inside the engine room to escape without a lot of fans, ducting etc, The above picture shows a exhaust duct on the Audi that is for a hydraulic fluid cooler. I forgot which hyd system it was for but that is irreverent for my purposes. The point is, this is a spot they choose to exhaust heated air.
I am building this car for track use at least for the first few years. But I also want to build it with a redo for street use in the future. So the heat buildup in the engine room will become a issue to be dealt with at some point. If I do it now it saves me cutting holes into a nice paintjob later.
One of the main the reasons I did this car in the first place was to learn something about a winged aero car. There is a lot of knowledge available on this subject and since I believe in "you can do it with trial and error or do it the way that others have proven, just decide how many times you want to be wrong" I will be using proven techniques to solve problems as I come apron them.
It also would have been a lot cheaper to have just redone my GT40 around slicks and more power. It would have gotten me a bit closer to the front of the fast group which is the objective. The reality is my driving will be the limiting factor more than likely anyway, so this build is really a hobby build. As in, the fun is in the doing.
But thanks for the concern, I have no pride when it comes to pointing out things I could do better. "You would be surprised what you can get done, if you don't have to get the credit".......... R. Regan.
I am building this car for track use at least for the first few years. But I also want to build it with a redo for street use in the future. So the heat buildup in the engine room will become a issue to be dealt with at some point. If I do it now it saves me cutting holes into a nice paintjob later.
One of the main the reasons I did this car in the first place was to learn something about a winged aero car. There is a lot of knowledge available on this subject and since I believe in "you can do it with trial and error or do it the way that others have proven, just decide how many times you want to be wrong" I will be using proven techniques to solve problems as I come apron them.
It also would have been a lot cheaper to have just redone my GT40 around slicks and more power. It would have gotten me a bit closer to the front of the fast group which is the objective. The reality is my driving will be the limiting factor more than likely anyway, so this build is really a hobby build. As in, the fun is in the doing.
But thanks for the concern, I have no pride when it comes to pointing out things I could do better. "You would be surprised what you can get done, if you don't have to get the credit".......... R. Regan.
Howard, Sorry to chime in about something I know very little about, but have you looked into the louvers that Fran's crew installed on the deck centerline behind the engine cover lexan on Ben's car? They really look good and Fran must know how well they vent hot air out of the engine bay. It might save you some time and trouble to check them out (if you haven't already).
Howard Jones
Supporter
I have seen #01's engine cover holes. I'm sure they work and I may simply do the same thing. Then again is there another way that I might like better? We'll see.
If you ever get a chance to ride in a car with helicopter vents in the side windows you will see just how much air they deliver to the interior once the car get moving. My GT40 has two, one on each side and they will lower the interior to outside air temp in about a min at speeds as low as 35 MPH. Scoops will bring in more air that any other method if the car is moving. I am beginning to lose faith in NACA ducts, especially without solid aero data to work with. The airflow MUST be attached as it enters the narrow leading opening for them to work anything like efficiency, whereas a scoop is directly presented to the airflow at a 90 degree angle. Of course the negative is drag. But in my case I don't really care about a little more drag. I'm not really concerned with top speed, but much more interested in as much grip as I can get. I expect that my car will be plenty fast enough that a mile per hour difference in flat out top speed isn't revenant. At least to me.
So with a dual use car can scoops be used to do both, deliver a enough air into the engine room at track speeds to cool it sufficiently and allow hot air to escape in traffic via the chimney method. At track speeds the engine is producing a lot more heat than a car at idle. Average power generated over a lap is probably more than 300HP whereas at idle the engine is making only a few dozen. Huge difference in heat generation.
The chimney method will work better if the vents are at the top of the area to be cooled and the good news is the scoops will flow the most air if they are directly in the airflow. So I'm thinking a couple of scoops near the top of the engine room cover in the airflow would also act as vents to allow hot air to escape when at low speed or stopped.
The trick is to make it look good also. Watch this space.
If you ever get a chance to ride in a car with helicopter vents in the side windows you will see just how much air they deliver to the interior once the car get moving. My GT40 has two, one on each side and they will lower the interior to outside air temp in about a min at speeds as low as 35 MPH. Scoops will bring in more air that any other method if the car is moving. I am beginning to lose faith in NACA ducts, especially without solid aero data to work with. The airflow MUST be attached as it enters the narrow leading opening for them to work anything like efficiency, whereas a scoop is directly presented to the airflow at a 90 degree angle. Of course the negative is drag. But in my case I don't really care about a little more drag. I'm not really concerned with top speed, but much more interested in as much grip as I can get. I expect that my car will be plenty fast enough that a mile per hour difference in flat out top speed isn't revenant. At least to me.
So with a dual use car can scoops be used to do both, deliver a enough air into the engine room at track speeds to cool it sufficiently and allow hot air to escape in traffic via the chimney method. At track speeds the engine is producing a lot more heat than a car at idle. Average power generated over a lap is probably more than 300HP whereas at idle the engine is making only a few dozen. Huge difference in heat generation.
The chimney method will work better if the vents are at the top of the area to be cooled and the good news is the scoops will flow the most air if they are directly in the airflow. So I'm thinking a couple of scoops near the top of the engine room cover in the airflow would also act as vents to allow hot air to escape when at low speed or stopped.
The trick is to make it look good also. Watch this space.
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If you want some good data and design discussion about various inlet and outlet configurations, there's this oldie but goodie. NACA-TR713 is from before the development of the NACA duct, but all you really need to know about NACA ducts is that they don't work their magic unless neither the volume nor the velocity of the airflow within/after the duct is substantially different from the free stream flow outside the duct. If you need either to throttle-down or slow-down the flow (e.g. to feed an engine intake or a radiator), then there are better options than NACA ducts. Even a simple hole in the skin may perform essentially the same as a mis-used NACA duct.
Howard Jones
Supporter
I was thinking of scoops similar to Fig 16 and 17, page 176. I seamed to have guessed correctly.
Howard Jones
Supporter
So cooling scoops it is. One way or another the heat has to be expelled from the engine room. Everybody is cutting holes in the window or leaving the fiberglass panel in place and cutting holes in it. So another direction was called for.
Again with the cardboard form and ten bucks worth of fiberglass. I believe they will really bring in a LOT of air at speed and the chimney effect ought to work as well as holes would otherwise.
Besides I think they look cool and add a little detail to the otherwise stark engine cover.
Oh the scoop that looks painted isn't. I thinking of wrapping the whole car, or least everything but the base color. I met with a wrap shop and it's worth looking at for stripes or graphics. Especially on a track car. Much, much less that a paint job. "1500-2000 for a full size sedan" I'll let you guys know what I find out when the wrap guy comes over for a look. He's local.
Again with the cardboard form and ten bucks worth of fiberglass. I believe they will really bring in a LOT of air at speed and the chimney effect ought to work as well as holes would otherwise.
Besides I think they look cool and add a little detail to the otherwise stark engine cover.
Oh the scoop that looks painted isn't. I thinking of wrapping the whole car, or least everything but the base color. I met with a wrap shop and it's worth looking at for stripes or graphics. Especially on a track car. Much, much less that a paint job. "1500-2000 for a full size sedan" I'll let you guys know what I find out when the wrap guy comes over for a look. He's local.
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