slc Ls 376 and grazziano

[Terry Oxandale]

The easiest way to remove a pilot bearing is to find a nice bolt that fills the ID of the bearing completely with no gap. Then fill the bearing and the space behind it with grease, wax or even this paste like stuff they used to sell at auto parts stores for this specific purpose. Once filled put your bolt in the bearing and whack with a hammer. It may take a few times to get the bearing out but I have never had this fail. Obviously after each whack you need to apply more grease. Based on my experience this is pretty much the universally accepted way of removing pilot bearings, not some super secret trick. If you can locate the waxy paste stuff at the auto parts store it works the best. Comes in a little tear open packet. Can't for the life of me remember the name of it.

This turned out to be the wrong way for my LS2. The cranks on these LS series motors are rifle drilled down the middle of the crank using a 24mm freeze plug in the rear-most hole of the crank to prevent oil from leaving the crankcase out the back. Attempting to hydraulically push the bearing out ends up pushing the freeze plug out its hole, and into the crankcase pan. Not something I had planned on, and required infinitely more work than a simple replacement of the bearing in order to drive it again. The only good thing about the experience was the recognition that something wasn't right compared to all the other times I'd done this. Thank goodness it was recognized.

 

[Jim T]

Nice work Dave! I don't think you are far behind me. I will give Fran and the pieces for the cables one more week ! then we will go another route. If the parts don't show up I will let you know what we come up with If you would like.......m:thumbsup:

Fran seems to be on another calendar.....weeks grow to months and months turn into broken promises!
Jim

 

[mahlon]

I agree david I have never done anything but instal them with a hammer and whatever I had that fit the bearing and never an issue. As far as Frans calender all I will say is being in the industry for a long time depending on other venders and there promises can be difficult at times. I know Fran does a lot of in house fabrication but like most all of us he depends on those outside venders.:lipsrsealed:

 

[Dave Forster]

I know red loctite is considered to be "permanent", but bolts with red on them can still be removed. In another application, I removed bearings which had loctite on them without too much difficulty (I think it was red, but not positive). It may be more effective when contained within a thread as opposed to the two smooth surfaces of the outer bearing race and the machined wall it sits against.

In any case, I will be happy if I never have to replace the bearing!

 

[David D]

This turned out to be the wrong way for my LS2. The cranks on these LS series motors are rifle drilled down the middle of the crank using a 24mm freeze plug in the rear-most hole of the crank to prevent oil from leaving the crankcase out the back. Attempting to hydraulically push the bearing out ends up pushing the freeze plug out its hole, and into the crankcase pan. Not something I had planned on, and required infinitely more work than a simple replacement of the bearing in order to drive it again. The only good thing about the experience was the recognition that something wasn't right compared to all the other times I'd done this. Thank goodness it was recognized.

Very interesting. I have never seen that.

 

[Eric A.]

I have removed the factory pilot bearing from an LS crank using the grease and punch method and it worked without affecting the plug behind it. Maybe this will work on some cranks and not others. Something to keep in mind next time I need to take one out.

 

[Dave Forster]

Can anyone offer the specs for the Graziano axle bolts? (inboard and outboard)?

I'm guessing these should be at least grade 10.9?

 

[Dr. David]

I would use 12.9 socket head cap screws if possible, safety-wired, or at least marked with Torque Seal or paint.
If you need a link, go to Allensfasteners.com and search for 12.9. Different finishes, different heads, but all 12.9.
David

 

[Dave Forster]

I just opened up the driveaxle box to take measurements for the bolt sizes and what should I discover, but a bag of bolts! (duh). So, for future reference if anyone needs them, each driveaxle requires:

12 M10x1.5 X 55mm grade 12.9 socket head.

In addition, there is a label on the driveshaft that says the final torque should be 57 lb/ft.

I'm not sure what it takes to drill grade 12.9 bolts for safety wire, but I'm kind of leaning towards just using the torque seal paint instead.

 

[Alex]

Dave, make sure those are the right bolts by fitting them. The DSS gave several of us Ricardo guys the wrong bolts(I was one of them).

I wouldn't waste your time drilling & safety wiring them. Just torque to spec in a cross-pattern and check after 50 miles. My bolts are all perfectly fine. I didn't use loctite on them because they used an adapter plate and I was worried that if i did, and removed them at some point, it would be a SOB to clean out the threads (i.e., the loctite would gather at the bottom of the hole and prevent proper torquing without cleaning it all out). I havn't found 1 loose bolt (out of 24 possibles) after about 300 miles.

 

[Will Campbell]

Dave, make sure those are the right bolts by fitting them. The DSS gave several of us Ricardo guys the wrong bolts(I was one of them).

I wouldn't waste your time drilling & safety wiring them. Just torque to spec in a cross-pattern and check after 50 miles. My bolts are all perfectly fine. I didn't use loctite on them because they used an adapter plate and I was worried that if i did, and removed them at some point, it would be a SOB to clean out the threads (i.e., the loctite would gather at the bottom of the hole and prevent proper torquing without cleaning it all out). I havn't found 1 loose bolt (out of 24 possibles) after about 300 miles.

I know of two SLCs that have had those bolts loosen over time. In one case, the axle came off while driving.

I plan to re-do mine with Bellville washers or maybe the Nordlock ones if they have the right size for the inner adapter bolts, and safety wire or painted lines and inspections on the visible ones.

I think that the use of Loctite is potentially problematic because of the grease problem-- I wonder if it would ever setup and hold correctly if installed into holes that weren't clean?

 

[Alex]

I think that the use of Loctite is potentially problematic because of the grease problem-- I wonder if it would ever setup and hold correctly if installed into holes that weren't clean?

I doubt it would hold correctly - gotta be squeeky clean.

I know Cam had issues with his loosening, wasn't aware of others.

I keep an eye on them when I'm checking my bolt torques, but I've never had an issue. Then again I don't drive very hard, so perhaps harder driving = higher rpms = more vibration = more chance of loosey loosey?

 

[mahlon]

Dave I use the torque seal paint on my aircraft and I was planning on using it on the axle bolts as well, it is a great quick refrance for checking them. I havnt heard anything from Fran on the cable connections to the transaxle but have not been able to do any more work on the slc lately. i am hoping they arive before i get a chance to get back to it, if not i will choose another route instead of continuing the wait..............m

 

[Dave Forster]

Alex - thanks for the tip. I checked and sure enough, if I use the supplied lockwashers, the bolts are about 5 mm too short on the transaxle side and about 2 mm too short on the wheel side.

By "too short", I mean that the bolt does not go all the way through the threaded part. This is not such a big deal on the wheel side, but in the case of the transaxle side, this looks especially important as only the bottom 1/2 of the hole is threaded. This would mean that using the supplied bolts and washers would only yield around 2-3 mm of engaged thread.

I am about to order 24 bolts with length = 60 mm.

 

[Dr. David]

Socket head cap screws require a special "High Collar" lock washer. I would assume they would have provided you with the special high collar ones with your bolts. Indeed, they are probably the reason why your bolts are too short. Longer bolts are a must.
You can also purchase drilled-head bolts for safety wire, but they are more difficult to find in metric sizes. Pegasus sells them for SAE.

 

[Dave Forster]

Two steps forward and one step back . . .

Thanks, Dr. David - as it turns out, the washers included with the transaxles are not high collar; they are significantly larger outside diameter than the head of the socket head bolts. However, the correct washers arrived today with the longer bolts, so all looked good until I tried to install the transaxles.

It appears that the "dish" on the outside of the transaxle is OK to mate with the axle stubs on the wheel side, but not on the Graziano side; each bolt hole on the transmission side has a wall that extends towards the center of the mounting flange. This interferes with the "dish" on the transaxle, preventing it from mating flush with the flange of the transmission.

Hopefully the attached pictures will explain better than my words above.

Am I missing something here, or does this mean the parts as they stand are not compatible without some kind of modification?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Remove the CAD plated cap on the Graziano side its a grease cover and we don't run them on either end of the axles with the cars we build or race....

Tech tip,
If you smear a little silicon sealer on the mating surfaces of the CV joint and the output flange you will help seal the two surfaces too...again , we don't on the race cars but they come apart for service regularly and street cars do not...

 

[mahlon]

Dave I had the same thing come up with mine and talked to fran and we just removed them as well! sorry I forgot to mention it in my postings. Fran any news on the cable ends to the grazziano...mahlon

 

[Michael Fling]

Remove on Graz side only?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Mike, as I said you in my email response to your questions today...yes ,remove the cap and follow the direction posted in this thread.