Something has me worried

[Lynn Larsen]

All,

I am not typically a politically minded person, but there is something afoot here that has me worried to say the least. You might even say I am just a bit scared about it, but it goes way beyond just being concerned. Being from North Carolina, I am a bit more familiar with the Vice Presidential candidate than some of you. What has me nervous is that, should John Kerry be elected President, John Edwards, who was just a few short years ago an ambulance chaser that no one had ever heard of, will be a heartbeat (or lack thereof) away from what is, arguably, the most powerful single position on this globe.

This man has absolutely no background to qualify him for this position or to make the kinds of decisions that the leader of the free world would have to make. I mean the guy has been a senator for how long? I am not exactly positive, I told you I am not particularly political, but it has to be less than one term! He got elected on the power of the money he has either stolen from people who weren't in a position to do anything else but succumb to his contingency plans in order to get some compensation for a real injury of one sort or another or that he extorted from interests that would rather pay than be besmirched by the innuendo and accusations allowed in civil court that provide them with only a lose-lose proposition otherwise.

Kerry is no angel either. With the near treasonous rhetoric he preached in his Winter Soldier anti-'anything military' campaigns, in my mind there are serious questions about his patriotism that call into question his suitability as President as well. Not to mention his amalgamation with the Northeast political far left and the strange bedfellows they keep.

Despite his less than rapier wit and the trauma he has inflicted upon the rules English grammar, I think Bush is under it all a good man doing what he truly believes is the right thing. I am not sure he is capable of playing pivot man in a world wide conspiracy to undermine the rights of ordinary people as the left would have us believe. Which to me is a good thing, because I believe Kerry is capable of playing an integral role in something dark and sinister in the name of the common good.

Maybe I am a paranoid, conspiracy theorists who thinks the government is still hiding something about Area 51 and doesn't need any more power than they already have or maybe I am just a pretty ordinary guy who sees this picture and thinks that something just doesn't look quite right, especially when John Edwards looks just like the father figure in the Sears & Roebucks Men's Underwear section of the wishbook.

My $0.02 worth,
Lynn

 

[Steve Toner]

Uh-oh. Please, let's not start down this road on this forum...

 

[Mainer]

I will simply say that my assessment of the presidential race and the state of the world is different than Lynn's. However, I will not inflict any explanation of my my views on my fellow GT40 enthusiasts. I check this site daily, in large part because it is an opportunity to engage in a simply fun discussion of simply fun topics. I hope that it will not become yet another place to observe the effects of the deep unpleasantness that has poisoned our civic culture, to each political party's great discredit.

 

[Ron Earp]

This is the "Off Topics" forum, so anything goes.....have at it fellows!!!! You guys know I don't allow "trash talking" in the main forum sections where we all pretty much stick to topic, but, this section is completely the opposite. If you don't want to read some trash, don't open this forum up - the sole purpose of this section is to have a place to put this sort of thing.

Haven't paid a lot of attention to the bickering on both sides, but, living in NC I do have an opinion about what Mr. Edwards has done for our state, not much, and have an opinion for what he wants to be - President, with as few as stops as possible on the way up. Mr. Kerry must certainly be aware of this fact unless he is extremely shortsighted.

 

[Steve Toner]

I think it's a bad idea - not to allow political discussion, but for us to engage in it here. Many's the website that has been destroyed by such discussion. Saying "just don't read it" doesn't cut it for me - I read every post on this place (eventually). And we all form opinions of people based on what they say here, whether we participate in the conversation or not. Going down this road may well cause people to change their opinions (for the worse) of others, and I don't see that there is much to be gained. That could (I suspect will) carry over into the other discussions, and we could end up losing people. Also keep in mind that this is an international forum, and those in other countries may not be interested (may even be offended) by our petty bickering. Again they "don't have to read it" but I think it's more likely to drive people away than to encourage the kind of environment that you're trying to create here.

I'm going to shut up now. If y'all do decide to discuss politics, please at least try to remain civil.

 

[David Morton]

My Opinion - Who sits in the Oval Office is of intense interest in the free world so as American citizens, don't be quite so insular. It is being avidly followed in all the media over here. And yes, it probably is the most responsible job in the world. Civil enough Steve ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Lynn Larsen]

I agree completely with you Steve and told both Ron and MkIV that I would understand if they wanted to yank this. But I think if we can each state our feelings/beliefs/facts and NOT attack others for doing the same thing and NOT criticize someone for what they think. (Unlike the candidates themselves, and I mean all of them!) Then it will be OK.

"I disagree with you John Doe and here is why........ I believe ......to be the case and feel we would be better off if ......." This kind of stuff should cause no problems.

On the other hand, "WHAT! YOUR A COMPLETE IDIOT!!! How could you think that?? There is no way..........is going to help anything. And that $#!+head wouldn't know his ass from a hole in the ground!" these kind of statements aren't needed, only show peoples ignorance and can cause hard feelings.

So far the statements that have been made have been very civil and I would like to think things will stay that way even though politics is the subject. With the elections soon, it will be of shortlived interest.

Regards,
Lynn

 

[Gary Gibbs]

Just for a little humor. Here are some "facts":
clip 1
clip 2

 

[roaldin]

In an effort to stop myself writing a post that would make Andre look concise I would just like to add my vote to Steve and Mainer's.
Maybe we could set up a coalition of the (un)willing and try to stop politics/religion etc ruining this otherwise fantastic forum as well as everything else. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I very nearly left this forum when a member made a comment about making another country a state of America. I value this forum greatly so decided to hang in there but I may not any longer. Not that it matters what this Australian does I guess.
Steve's point applies for me also as I read pretty much all posts via the last 24 hours button.
As David said, the rest of the world watches with intense interest (many with other emotions) but this place has been a place for me to escape to some degree and it has reminded me that stereotypes don't always represent people well. It would be a shame to lose this oasis.

The web is a big place and there are plenty of forums where this sort of discussion is welcome.

Tim.

 

[BenL]

Instead we could talk about the Red Sox. I'm not a sports fan, but I'd rather talk about them than politics.

Now that they've won, what's going to happen next? Someone invents a carburetor that runs on water, and they can prove it? The FDA approves chocolate as a diet aid? F1 becomes exciting?

The headline on the boston.com website immediately after they won was:
[ QUOTE ]
Pigs can fly, hell is frozen, the slipper finally fits,
and impossible Dreams really can come true.

The Red Sox have won the World Series


[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Mark Worthington]

Along with Ted Kennedy (ugh), John Kerry has been one of my senators during the 17 years I've lived in Massachusetts. I have been less than impressed with his record, and wouldn't vote for him if he ran for dog catcher. I can't help but think that the support he has garnered thus far is not so much for the Kerry/Edwards ticket as much as it is against the Bush/Cheney ticket.

I admire Bush as a principled, steadfast leader, and I honestly don't understand why there is so much outright hatred for the man, although I do understand how it is fueled by the media. Do I agree with everything that Bush has said or done? Hell no - I think he's flat wrong on stem cell research, he has an oilman's hubris toward energy and environmental policy, and he and the republican congress have spent money like a drunken sailor. On tax and fiscal policy, I think the Republican party would be well advised to read a few of Warren Buffet's populist musings in his Berkshire Hathaway Annual Reports. But I think it's unfair to fault Bush for the entire US economy, which was in the process of collapsing from an unprecedented bubble just as Bush took office, which was compounded by a crushing blow on 11 September. I believe Bush's tax cut actually helped to lessen the severity of the recession that we just went through, at the price of a rapidly expanding deficit. I hate the thought of social medicine and the tax hikes that will go along with it, and even though my family's income is supposed to be below the level where we would be affected by a Kerry tax hike on "the rich," I am certain that I will pay more taxes over the next four years if Kerry is elected president. His senate voting record is pretty clear on how he feels about taxes and government spending.

I guess a lot of the animosity towards Bush derives from his foreign policy. Personally, I've been of the opinion for a while now that the US should get out of the UN because it is simply a corrupt debating society with no collective will to do anything other than pass resolutions. The oil-for-food scandal has reinforced my feelings toward the UN. As for Iraq, we'll have to let the history books 50 years hence tell us how that worked out. My belief is that history will conclude that Bush had the balls that Chamberlain never did. Saddam was like Hitler lite, and he did all sorts of nice stuff like pay Palestinian suicide bombers' families $10,000 for their efforts, gas the Kurds, and invade and loot his neighbors. The current insurgency in Iraq is intense and there is the very real possibility that our actions there may have created more terrorists than existed at the start of the war, but it's clear to me that we are fighting the forces of evil. The people we're fighting kidnap and behead innocent civilians, they blow themselves and innocent Iraqis up, they execute unarmed recruits, they prefer death and chaos and militant Islamist ideals instead of a secular, free and democratic Iraq. These really truly are the bad guys. Shouldn't the good guys be fighting the bad guys? Isn't that what we do - fight evil? There are a lot of people in the mideast who hate us now. Did all these people decide to start hating the US on 20 January 2001 when Bush took office? Considering the political, religious and nationalistic ideals of most of these people in the mideast who hate us so fervently, are they the kind of people we want as friends?

I can understand the perspective of people who are concerned about a doctrine of premption and who think we've created a God-awful mess in Iraq when we should've paid more attention to Afghanistan, but I still haven't heard Kerry put forth any sort of a believable alternative to what we're currently doing. I guess if he takes office he'll take a trip to Paris and Berlin to meet with Chirac and Schroeder and say, "Hi, I'm the new US President, and you'll be glad to hear that I'm NOT George Bush. You can send your troops to start dying for our guys as soon as you're ready. Thanks, ally."

Wars suck. Nobody likes to send their kids to die, especially if they don't believe in the cause. And even wars that are won can look pretty grim...consider how bad things went for the Union for four straight years during the civil war. Consider that Russia lost 20 million men in the last war it "won." Yeah, the security situation in Iraq is a mess, but there are good things happening there that just don't make sensational headlines. Afghanistan just held its first ever election, which seemed to go pretty well.

Well, looking back, I guess I may have gotten carried away with this post. I didn't intend to offend anyone, but then again, I'm not aware of any constitutional guarantees against being offended when someone voices their opinion. I can't understand why someone would walk away from all the good tech and GT40 comeraderie here on this forum just because someone has a different political opinion and chooses to voice it in the Off Topic section. Since the demographics of this forum point toward more successful and mature members than most other internet forums, I'm sure we can have a civil discussion about politics without resorting to name calling or bad feelings. Hey, I live and work in Massachusetts and am surrounded by liberal democrats. We have healthy debates and disagreements but we're mature enough to not let them interfere with our personal lives. I have an open mind and would love it if someone can piece together a well-reasoned argument that leads me to conclude that I'm way off base and that I should vote for Kerry next week. I'd love it even more if I could convert someone to support Bush. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Bill Bayard]

The biggest thing that irks me about the Bush administration isn't the war in Iraq, the economy, Medicare, Social Security, prescription drugs, the lack of tax equity, the environment, the special interest groups, Halliburton, WMD's, Afghanistan, health care costs, jobs, education, the war on terror, fear based politics (although the fire and brimstone thing worked well in the Bible!)or even Dick Cheney, it's the Christian based attitude, which has led every decision made in the White House, over the past 3 1/2 years. Faith certainly has it's place in the world, but when the facts tell you to do one thing, and you do another because "God" told you to, there's a big problem! Facts are just that, facts! Faith, hunches, gut feelings, little voices, psychic readings, etc. should never come into play, when the outcome will affect the future of the entire world!
The lack of regard for future generations, resulting from the assumption that the world is coming to an end anyway, is abhorrent, self-destructive, selfish, and just plain stupid!
If you are Bush fans, can you honestly say this is a good thing? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Do you care about your children's and grandchildren's futures? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif While I won't be around to see it, I do believe that my descendants HAVE a future! I'd like to think that it isn't going to be ruined by another 4 years of religious right wing zealots running this country.
I'm not particularly thrilled with Kerry, but anybody could run the White House better than Bush, based on fact, not faith, even Dan Quayle! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif The next thing Bush will do, is replace Condoleeza Rice with Miss Cleo! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Nuff said!
Sorry if I offended any Bible thumpers! Just my $0.02.

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

Re: Great debates

Bill, You've capped the lot---"politics and religion".
now bring on the great debates section.
As baby boomers we are at the peril of our parents and children (and grandchildren if we don't watch it) so now is a good time to be considering the future for everyones sake--consider your voting carefully "friends" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Bill Bayard]

Re: Great debates

How about we get away from politics, religion,
etc., and debate something REALLY important!

"Why did the chicken cross the road?"

Opinions, please!

 

[Denis Bedford]

Re: Great debates

Bill log on and find out there is a website for everything these days www.whydidthechickencrosstheroad.com

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Re: Great debates

Lynn PM'ed me ask asked if I thought this was an "OK" post in this area. I feel strongly that personal ideas are OK IN THIS SECTION but are taboo elsewhere. While some "off topic" boards become clogged with either right wing (see Roscoe's posts on ClubCobra) or left wing (see numerous ClubCobra postings) I think here we are mature enough to express OPINIONS without letting it affect our mutual respect for each other. I for one enjoy reading the opposite viewpoint, it encourages thought (an increasingly rare occurance in American politics) and intercourse (the verbal type, not the fun type) about issues that affect all of us...yes even those in Blighty and OZ will be indirectly affected by the outcome and the future direction this nation takes.

So long as we avoid the "Jane, you ignorant slut" style of discourse I see no reason why we can't discuss and, yes, have some fun with the polictial situation in the US.

Should Ron disagree with my posistion it is entirely within his rights to pull such threads.

Running on the platform of "NOT INSANE!!"

Rick for dictator /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Lynn Larsen]

Re: Great debates

My vote goes to "To prove to the possum that it could actually be done!"

Lynn

 

[Ian K]

[ QUOTE ]
Instead we could talk about the Red Sox. I'm not a sports fan, but I'd rather talk about them than politics.

Now that they've won, what's going to happen next? Someone invents a carburetor that runs on water, and they can prove it? The FDA approves chocolate as a diet aid? F1 becomes exciting?

The headline on the boston.com website immediately after they won was:
[ QUOTE ]
Pigs can fly, hell is frozen, the slipper finally fits,
and impossible Dreams really can come true.

The Red Sox have won the World Series


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

The beauty of this statement:

According to Dante (in the Inferno) - Hell is already frozen!
That got quite a few smiles (and dates) for me in college -
the girl would say "When Hell freezes over!" and I would kindly
point her to Dante /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Oh, and I suppose:

The Red Sox will have to wait 86 more years for the next one.
The Cubs have been waiting 96 years.
The White Sox 88 years IIRC.

Oh, and didn't you hear? Ferrari is pulling out of F1!

Ian

 

[Ian K]

My wife is a teacher. Bush's approach to education alone is
enough to make me vote for Kerry. "No child left behind" has
had the exact opposite effect. That remarkable record in Texas
schools - was a lie. Schools asked low scoring students to stay
home during the tests, students who dropped out were said to
have transferred - but the schools they transferred to have
no record or student to show for it. The teachers in Texas
have come forth with this information, as well as the test
prep that became school curriculum. No art, no music, limited
history/civics, limited science, etc. in primary schools!
Only reading, writing, and arithmetic that would be reflected
in those tests.

Not good.

Ian

 

[40 Bud]

Having sent 4 kids thru the Liberal Calif. school system I don't think we have much to crow about! Don't forget that politicians are what they are - word masters - not foundationed in truth. All that said Kerry scares me!