Something has me worried

hi Joseph
its easy to sit in your arm chair and pontificate but with over 100,000 dead I think it time Blair and Bush called it a day.
You can't go killing people and expect to win their hearts and minds.
Get real this is about Oil and power nothing else.
My son is on the front line in Baghdad right now I just hope he comes home.
Chris.

 

[Murray Cowley]

Chris,
Hear hear,
Murray

 

[Ron Earp]

[ QUOTE ]
My wife wants a new BMW. We went to look at them. I noticed that the car was manufactured in Germany and the transmission was made in France. That sealed the deal.
Joseph

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you expect anything different? Even if it was the Z or X model built in Greenville SC it is still a German company and the money flows to the German parent. If you're opposed to any money flowing the European countries in exchange for cars then you'd probably better get ready to drive some sub-standard domestic cars, IMHO. GM/Ford/Chysler have little to offer besides trucks, and even there they have stiff competition. Chris I'm on your side with that one.
Ron

 

Chris, I hope your son comes home safe and in one peace. God bless him.
These radicals will never change until they are dead. I have lived with them when I was younger and understand what they are taught and how they think about how the world is supposed to be according to " their God ". Everyone that is not a beleaver is supposed to be killed. They have been trying to take over the world for almost 1000 years. Right now they are in your country haveing their woman have as many children as possable to take over your countries by voting with a majority in the distant future if they can't do it by force. Did you ever wonder why they beleave in 75 virgins after death? It's because they don't have any here on earth after what they do to their daughters when they are 9 years old. Did you ever wonder why the men wear those pants with the very low sagging crotch? They are to catch the baby. What baby do you ask? The one that is supposed to be the next christ who can only be born from a man. Use your immagination. Get a copy from the autobography channel about the Shaw of Iran and listen to what he had to say to Dick Cavet who interviewed him about the radicals he was fighting before he was deposed because Jimmy Carter would not back him. He said and I quote "that if the radicals ever get strong that you would be fighting them all over the world". There are 99 wars going on all over the world today and everyone of them are with the Moslems. After 9-11 President Bush used a word that the Moslem leaders told him he can't use and that word was " Crusades ". Do you remember that word from way back in school? The Christians were fighting the Moslems. Our grandchildren will suffer if we can not stop these people that have the fastest growing religeon in the world today. Like Germany and Japan the only way they will be stopped is by crushing them.

 

[Bill Bayard]

Chris,

I hope that your son makes it home, safe and sound. I'm sure that it's difficult to justify your son's whereabouts, for a gallon of gas, but sadly, that IS what it's all about.
If this were about human rights violations, civil war, etc., in the Middle East, wouldn't you agree that America/Britain would have settled the Israeli/Palestinian thing by now? Sanctions? Trade restrictions? Something? Anything?

Not likely!

We have no interest in making them play nice together, because neither group has a drop of oil!


Bill

 

[Gary Gibbs]

For those that may not have seen this, here is a map showing Bush/Kerry wins by county . It clearly shows that Kerry has strong support in a very small geographic area around large cities in the west and NE.

Muslim radicals are hell bent on destroying any and all infidels in the world which includes all non-muslims. They are currently doing this in many many countries around the world. Look at the Sudan.

In Europe something like 6-8 countries have outlawed "physical punishment" of children. We are not talking child abuse, but spanking, etc. The UK is considering the same.

In the Muslim run countries beheadings, removal of hands, and stoning to death are acceptable forms of punishment. Extrapolate to a conclusion....

 

Joseph

I trace my family tree back to the Norman invasion of England in 1066 on my coat of arms is a Saracens head my ancestors were Nights Templars or as you know them Crusaders I am not in need of a history lesson.

The Crusaders were driven out of the Holy land leaving their dead behind, it seams as though we have learnt nothing from history, to me this will turn into the next Vietnam with young Americans being drafted and sent over sea's to die in far off places.

Remember the reason for the war in Irac ie WMD.

From the way you speak you seem to want to ethnically cleanse all Muslims from the planet, remember that only a few Muslims are extremist's not all. If you had your way, who would pump the oil?

Chris.
PS. I spoke with my son today he told me that an American officer had told him that he had his vote cancelled and not counted because of a bureaucratic screw up. Seems ironic that he is there fighting for democracy and can't vote himself.

 

[Gary Gibbs]

I pre election poll the military supported W 76% to 18% Kerry.

 

[Ron Earp]

[ QUOTE ]
The Christians were fighting the Moslems. Our grandchildren will suffer if we can not stop these people that have the fastest growing religeon in the world today. Like Germany and Japan the only way they will be stopped is by crushing them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whew. I fear that religion is one of the main reasons for fighting in the world, unfortunately. But, picking one and saying that they are "evil" or must be stopped, or eradicated, goes against the teachings of most major religions today - Islam included.

Human history and the long list of masacares/clensings/etc. by religious groups, or in the name of a particular belief is probably one of the main reasons I am not religious today.

 

[David Morton]

Religion - don't go there guys - please. This debate has been sensible up to now.

 

[BenL]

[ QUOTE ]
Our grandchildren will suffer if we can not stop these people that have the fastest growing religeon in the world today.

[/ QUOTE ]

You got it half right. But religion isn't the problem, it's population growth. A growing population of bored, under-educated, unemployed, young males is what you have to worry about. It doesn't matter what their religion is.

 

[Lynn Larsen]

This thread started because of the election. And, this thread was started because it had international interest and had a very well defined, achievable exit strategy based on a clear conclusion. The election is over, so what say we call this one completed.

This is the Off-Topic forum, so if you want to start another thread on other discussions, please do. But, what say we try to keep it to discussions that have an achievable conclusion. Unfortunately, discussions of religion do not have this.

Religion by definition is based on faith: a hope based on things unseen, unmeasureable and unquantifiable. If it were not, it would not be faith. Faith is an individual thing between a mortal physical being and his/her God. While it is great to be able to congregate with people of similar faith, and it is admirable to share with others the faith that you hold as an individual, we cannot debate the correctness of faith because outside of our own spirit, apart from the individual, it is meaningless. In the end groups will not be judged; individuals will be.

As a Christian, I don't believe I, as an individual, even own my own faith: it is a gift from God, because, left to my own devices, I could not have believed in something that is foolishness to the purely human mind. So what point is there in debating this with someone? There is none because without faith my arguments make no sense and seem to be pure foolishness and if that someone shares my faith there is no need to debate. If someone is stressed over what he or she perceives as a separation from or lack of understanding of what they feel is the supreme being, the force that created all of this that we perceive or God, as I call him, I would be more than happy to share this foolishness that I believe: God's free gift that permits fellowship with him now and forever. From that point on it is up to that individual to accept the foolishness for his or her self and ultimately God that can grow that acceptance into true, mature faith. How on earth can this be debated?

In the meantime all I can say about man's inhumanity to man, the ancient strife between various groups in this world, the hatred, bigotry, pain and suffering that goes on, is that it hurts my spirit to know it exists, but my spirit is exhilarated in knowing that the perfect God does understand and has a plan to bring it to and end. And, one day when my spirit is in full fellowship with God, also spirit, I will understand why it was so. None of us can say we truly understand what is happening, let alone why, so again I ask: How, in God's name, can we debate this?

I have read the bible at least 5 times, I have studied Catholicism, the Reformation denominations, the Pentecostals and Charismatics, as well as the basics of the major world religions and I will NOT debate this here. I would invite the rest of you to follow suite and not debate religion here either.

Regards,
Lynn

 

As most of you probably have guessed by now with my strange name, I was not born in US of A. As a matter of fact I was born in a country that is a 30 minutes drive from Basra in Iraq! The city’s name is Abadan and it is right on the border of Iraq, Iran and Kuwait. A kind of a quit nice place for vacation! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I became a US citizen in 1986. Unlike most of you, to become a citizen I had to take an AIDS test, finger printed and checked for criminal back ground, checked to see ever been on any government subsidy and so on. Fail any of the above and,,,,no citizenship. Come to think of it, how the hell did I pass? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I have been voting since 1986,,,,every election,, YOU,,,,,WE are very lucky to be citizen of this country. I love this country very very very very much!! HOWEVER, there are “things” here that need to be monitored by all of us citizens. I have seen first hand what “religious People” do when given political rights, I was born in Iran. Let’s put it this way, my thoughts on Organized religion is that there is no difference between them and ORGANIZED CRIME, they need to be stamped out.

IMHO, the two major political groups Dems and Reps. As whole SUCK. We need a third party in this country.

And finally, I propose that, I should be the first “Alien Citizen” to be elected as the president. The presidential Limo would be a stretched GT40 with a boom box. Clinton would be hired as my Orgies organizer and Nixon as the information minister.

May Allah be praised, NOT!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

P.S Ohhh, one more thing, I was born a Muslim. You have lunatic Muslims and lunatic Christians. I do not subscribe to either group. It is possible to be religious and not act like an IDIOT, or is it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Faili, and all, I have read this thread with interest, but generally speaking I am not a political. But your P.S comment / question struck a chord with me.
Faili said 'It is possible to be religious and not act like an IDIOT, or is it?'
I have thought about that one and my answer is 'yes but it is very difficult' IMHO
Let me put some flesh on that.
I have worked in many countries Muslim and other, Saudi, AbuDhabi, Sudan, Jordan, China, Japan, USA, India, and have received the same welcome and respect wherever I went. Work at ground level with local people, and in some cases talked to them about their religion, and the differences and similarities between theirs and mine. I was brought up to be a Christian in England.
Thinking about this, and my choice of words 'brought up to be a Christian', I have long thought that we are all 'brought up to be' i.e IMHO we have not figured it out for ourselves, we have all been given a pre-determined set of quasi facts and beliefs. How smart does that make us if we become too absorbed in our own religion, and believe that it is THE right one then get swept along by fanatical leaders?
The problem is that if we subscribe too deeply to a religion, and accept its leaders as quasi gods, we can collectively be swept along and behave like idiots when those leaders are themselves fanatical. I dont need to mention any names here, just look at world history to see who they have been and how they have been followed, and we can include political fanatics in this, where the distinction between religion and politics becomes somewhat clouded.
I dont know what the answer to all this is, but for my part, IMHO I think that it is more productive to be humanist, to divorce myself from any particular religion and to try to fathom the common roots of the different religions, because the roots do appear to be common.
So I think that history suggests that for the human race collectively, it is not possible to be religious and not act like an idiot, as individuals we have a choice , but it becomes very difficult if we are too absorbed in a particular set of beliefs and can be influenced by fanatical leaders whether Muslim, Christian or any other.

regards
Dave

 

Yes, it is a war for oil - to stop France, Germany and Russia from stealing in the corrupt oil for food program! Seriously, if we are fighting for oil, why are taxpayers paying for the war and not using Iraqi oil to foot the bill?

The key to all this is education. I agree with Bush that only through democracy will we break the cycle of Arab opression of their own people. The Arab leaders are running the region like deity with the current result. This is a fix that will take a least a generation, but it has to start somewhere.

How many lives are being saved because of the stand being taken now? It is an old arguement, but a good one - how many lives would have been saved if Hitler and Tojo had been stopped?

Religion is and always will be used. Hilter with the Jews. Christians with the Jews. Christians with the Arabs. Arabs with the infidels. The radical Arab leaders are using religion to foster hatred of the west, with the result that many in the west see the Arabs as nothing but evil. And doesn't that work to the benefit of the radicals? To my mind, eductaion is the key.

 

[Lynn Larsen]

Something happened here in Raleigh the night before last that has me totally flabbergasted. It seems that a group of around 100 people dressed in dark clothing and gloves attacked a bank, but more importantly the Republican headquarters. It seems that the Democratic headquarters was next on the list, but the whole thing got derailed when some citizens who live near the Republican headquarters, hearing noise, shouting and glass breaking came out to see what was going on. They physically detained several of the group. They had home made torches and roman candles with which they intended to set the place on fire. The spray painted graffiti on the walls which included an "A" in a circle, which according to the news reports is the Anarchists logo.

While it wasn't mentioned if this group is headquartered any where (I guess the concept of a headquarters would be anti-thematic to anarchists they are apparently not based here in Raleigh but appear to pop up in random locations. Again, this has me totally amazed and dumbfounded. Where would a group this large get funding to just pop up somewhere, perform vandalism and then disappear back into the woodwork.

Has anyone heard of something like this happening in their vicinity before? Is anyone aware of this group and/or understand their background, motives and strategy?

Regards,
Lynn

 

[Ron Earp]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is a war for oil - to stop France, Germany and Russia from stealing in the corrupt oil for food program!

To my mind, eductaion is the key.

[/ QUOTE ]

So that's what it was! The Spainards were just "educating" folks during that little Inquisition thing. I always wondered about that. Seriously, education is the key to stopping a lot of the bad things that happen in the world, of course, then one can always ask "what kind of education" and get infinite responses.

This "oil for food thing" I don't quite understand. One of the right wing fellows in my office is always informing me about it as to the reasons why nobody else is in Iraq.

If Pat knows about it (not grouping you as a right winger Pat, you just mentioned it), and this fellow in my office knows about it, and it seems to be common knowledge as the real reason for why nobody else is involved there, then the Bush administration sure missed a good opportunity. I mean, if this is true and all then they should have come out with this during the campaign and let everyone know. That could have stopped a lot of critisim about Bush and the Iraq war and could certainly paint the administration is a very nice light as they steering the country away from this underhandedness that the other countries are engaged in. This titbit of info is also grouped by some into another piece of info that "no WMD were found because the Russians moved them out."

Must be some reason why nobody (meaning government folks) talks about it in the open and I've got the feeling it is because there are only half truths or complete fallicies in all of that.

 

Just for the sake of educating All you INFIDELS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Wahhabi Branch of Islam (ie, the Supreme Lunatic group). Considers the following religions infidels;

Christianity
Judaism
Buddhism
Shiea Muslims
Sufi Muslims
Sunni (none Wahhabi) Muslims
And anybody else with 1/2 a brain,,,,

So As you can see, upon my birth, I would have been as much of an infidel as the rest of my GT-40 brothers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Today, after many years of NOT practicing my religion, consuming massive quantities of Alcohol and looking at naked pictures of Women, I have become a complete 100% INFIDEL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

To all who misunderstood. I was talking about the radicals. Joseph

 

[Bill Bayard]

Freddy F,

If you drink alcohol religiously and worship women, does that count? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

You're one of us (infidels) now! That's all that matters!

Bill