Southern GT #48

Martin had that set up on his Southern which had a good 347 engine. with an HP 650 Holley running just one pump at a time. At Le Mans on the track where it is flat out most of the time the pump could not keep up and it ran lean and melted a piston crown. Luckily when the half moon shape on the piston top came off and stuck to head it did no further damage. The head cleaned up OK as did the bore so only a new piston needed. Spoke to Kenny Coleman who did the rebuild and he suggested the Holley pumps (self reg) and high flow filters as he thought the Facets/ Filter Kings were not enough for a 347.
However I have been using this set up on my 302 and it has been happy for 20 years.
Cheers
Mike
Mike,

You did tell me Martin's driving style meant he used to go around roundabouts at 45 degrees in his 40, so I expect that did not help things :)
 
I did the same thing - had them so I could use either one, or both, but didn't balance them. It gave me a "reserve" when driving on road trips, and at the track I'd run both at once. I had to run all fuel lines in the back through that aeroquip orange insulation.
 

Bill Kearley

Supporter
AN to 3/8 fuel line. I used a # 6 AN swivel to 3/8 rubber push on barbed adapter. The right hose and fitting parts from Parker are good to 300 psi.
 
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Eddy McClements

Supporter
Thanks everyone for the input. I have to admit that before I ordered these parts I read every post on here about fuel pumps, fuelling requirements and people's experiences with Facet / Carter / Holley / Walbro etc .

Here are the calculations (I'm planning for 330-350hp):-

For example, if you have an engine that makes 350 horsepower, your equation will look like this:

(350HP x .5 lbs) / 6 lbs =
175 lbs/hr of fuel / 6 lbs = 29 GPH

In our example, you’d need a fuel pump that delivers 29 GPH of fuel.

and from Summit racing:-

1592209184947.png


And these are fuel requirements for running WOT...on the narrow, bumpy, gravel-strewn lanes of north Lancashire I'll be luck to hold full throttle for more than 5 seconds!

I did read about some failures caused by lean conditions, but it seemed that on investigation other factors were responsible, eg. running one of these as a pre-filter:-

1592209612902.png


which had then clogged and collapsed, causing the pump to fail. And for every tale of woe, there seems to be another tale of someone using a pair of Facets for 20 years without an issue.

So....I'll continue to ponder. Remember, I'm building a modestly-powered road car, not a 500hp track weapon. Maybe I'll hook up one of the pumps / filter kings to a 12v power supply and a jerry can, and measure what it'll really deliver. And I entirely appreciate that fuel pumps are cheaper than engines!
 

Eddy McClements

Supporter
The Malpassi 85mm V8 regulator is rated up to 350 bhp.
Above that there's an alternative metal element available.
Major downside is the 8 micron vs 55 micron filtration capability.

It would be great of you to run the flow test though Eddy as my plan is also to use twin Red Top pumps with paired 85mm regulators.
It would save me having to do the same thing :)

Hi Mark

I'm beginning to have second thoughts...I think I was given a false sense of security re: Facet pumps by these images:-







which show pairs of Facet pumps.
 
I've got to be honest here - I wouldn't be fully comfortable running a single Facet pump on it's own.
There's always going to be that opportunity when you want to hoof it and have no time to upgrade to the second pump.
I was going to flow test a Facet Red Top anyway to find out if I would end up in the marginal zone (347ci engine with AFR heads planned for my build) and then decide accordingly.
The Red Tops are rated to about 240 BHP new and we all know that it will lose efficiency a bit as it's used. Added to that, the filter will strangle things further.

The problem now becomes "how much do you want to spend?".

I've been investigating some of the offerings of Jegs and they have a range of relatively inexpensive items that support a lot of flow.
I am being drawn towards the Holley Red items as it would seem to be man enough for the job.
A pair of those for "belt and braces" is looking very viable.
I have heard (no pun intended) that the Holley pumps can be quite noisy but a set of megaphone exhausts will easily deal with that :)
 

Shaun

Supporter
I used a pair of these in mine they feed a swirl pot then HP to the fuel rail, I spent ages looking at fuel pumps, these lift which is good as they are sited (as they seem to be in most GT40's) above the tank


My plumbing got a bit busy!!!

IMG_0552.jpgIMG_0553.jpg
 

Shaun

Supporter
I struggled to find a UK supplier but not sure if I tried Roadcraft, good price there I paid a fair bit more for mine, cheers
 
Eddy , a couple of points. Most people have run facets for years with no problems. I run a single facet blue top (480534) rated at 45GPH and it will keep my 440HP motor singing a full chat for longer than I would like to mention because I was doing stupid speeds at the time (Enstone runway). At no point will I ever come close to holding the throttle open for that long on the public roads, from a rolling start I can only manage a few seconds of full throttle on a dual carriageway before im well into 100 mph + speeds so I don't think its a problem you will ever face. Secondly Holley Reds are useless unless gravity fed, so next to useless in a 40. Very few pumps can lift that kind of height.

Crack on and use them , if your going racing at lemans then have another look at it. I suspect you won't be.
 

Eddy McClements

Supporter
Do a lot more homework before deciding, there are lot more considerations to establish that are not mentioned above !
Oh...believe me, Frank - this is not a snap decision :) and your response is extremely tantalising....tell me more....



I think I may have read every "which fuel pump" post on this Forum, pored over my library (some titles here):-




And scoured the paddock at last year's Oulton Park Gold Cup looking at fuel systems. Every elbow and connector has been checked to make sure there are no restrictions, I am using 10mmID hose throughout, I am only asking the pumps to lift less than half their specified height etc etc.

But, if there's something I've missed, I am all ears!
 
I can only ad, I had a lot of failures not coping with the fuel demand needed after a long journey in 3 of my cars. All Facet red top & blue top (same pump differend filter) all pushing through a 85MM Filterking
All situated at fuel level.
New out of the box the'll work fine for a year after that the'll wear out fast in the bore.
The'll all suffered from heat soak created by them self. When Facet's get hot they are not sufficient anymore to cope with the demand of the engine.
3.0V6 on tripple 40's couldn't do 3 hours highway cruise.
I have replaced about 5 pumps all genuine Facet.

My friend Rally Escort RS2000 had to swich pump (Facet blue top) every hour on a rally course till I suplied him two Holley pumps, 3th year for him on a row still running first pump without switching to the other.

I got the tip from several Classic car racers at Spa to swap pumps to a Holley red.
So I swapped pumps on all 3 cars and never had any fuel issues again. AFR is constant now.
Running AFR gauges in all my cars ant most lean conditions where traced back to the Facet pumps.

I am going to run Carter HP pumps on my GT40
 
Oh...believe me, Frank - this is not a snap decision :) and your response is extremely tantalising....tell me more....



I think I may have read every "which fuel pump" post on this Forum, pored over my library (some titles here):-




And scoured the paddock at last year's Oulton Park Gold Cup looking at fuel systems. Every elbow and connector has been checked to make sure there are no restrictions, I am using 10mmID hose throughout, I am only asking the pumps to lift less than half their specified height etc etc.

But, if there's something I've missed, I am all ears!
Oh...believe me, Frank - this is not a snap decision :) and your response is extremely tantalising....tell me more....



I think I may have read every "which fuel pump" post on this Forum, pored over my library (some titles here):-




And scoured the paddock at last year's Oulton Park Gold Cup looking at fuel systems. Every elbow and connector has been checked to make sure there are no restrictions, I am using 10mmID hose throughout, I am only asking the pumps to lift less than half their specified height etc etc.

But, if there's something I've missed, I am all ears!
Eddy, call me if you want to discuss, too much info to write on here, but also too many experts ! Frank
 
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