Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
I was talking specifically - not generalizing. Do you comprehend the difference?
Somehow I doubt it.
Stupid stupid stupid!
- Thread starter Gravy
- Start date
I was talking specifically - not generalizing. Do you comprehend the difference?
Somehow I doubt it.
Tom, who's doing these things?
Please, stop talking in absolutes. Last time I checked, we were doing none of these things....
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
I never expect anything complimentary from you. nor do I want or care for anything complimentary from you - I don't know you, certainly don't care what you think.
The fact is you appear to have an opinion of that part of the world that is based on the same kind of idealistic thinking that has us in the situation we are in makes your opinions not valid to me. You need to be patronized. You have bad ideas. As for those in that part of the world - they need to be brought along slowly until they understand the concept of civilization. Until then they need a firm hand.
And don't tell me what I can be or not be.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Posted by Pat
Pat, you are right, please help me understand.
You say you were talking "specifically" when you called a large religious group "stone age motherfuckers" -"not generalizing"?
It sounds an awful lot like generalizing to me.
Or do you mean that:
You calling a large group names is OK, because it is "generalizing", but being specific and and calling one person names is not OK because that is talking "specifically"?
Last edited:
Pat,
I'm sorry that you don't care for what I think. Do you only care about the opinion of people who agree with you?
Me, an idealist? ... Hardly. I just don't deal in absolutes in the same way that you do. I am a realist. you feel that I need to be patronised. I'm sorry you feel that way.
"As for those in that part of the world - they need to be brought along slowly until they understand the concept of civilization. Until then they need a firm hand."
Brought along to where Pat? To the way that you would want them to think? Do you not see the words that you have typed, take a second breath, re-read them and then think.. "OK, I need to rephrase that, because I sound like Adolph Hitler, Lebensraum and all that..."
These are people from a completely different culture to yours. Just because it's different, it doesn't make it wrong. Where it does go wrong is when it affects other people who may not be a part of that culture. But the knife cuts both ways...
It is difficult in a post to articulate that which you are trying to say, which is why I am (relatively) anal about re-reading my thoughts.
I can appreciate that when you agreed to drop 500 Kiloton bombs on the Afghans, you were being metaphorical, but please try to be more factual and less Yee Haw as you do yourself an injustice. I'm sure if we met in a bar there would be a thousand things that we agree on, and a thousand that we don't, but we would still leave the bar as friends. As I posted to Veek earlier today (who is an intelligent man, and his posts are measured and thoughtful) :-
Vive la Difference!
Graham.
Doc,
I like your "Law Of Thread Entropy", but this one only made it to page two
Easy there now Jimmy boy - we're well into page three :laugh::laugh:
But Graham, since you mentioned the "Adolf Hitler" words we're now going to be subject to Godwin's Law
Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gentlemen, Back top the topic at hand.....The Pastor and his "Stupid, Stupid, Stupid" acts. I live in Gainesville and I thought you'd like some insight as to the local thinking on this "Man of God." We're aware of the impact his actions have had on the other side of the planet and we're disgusted that he hails from this town. In addition he's made an impact on those living in this town and the neighborhood in which his church exists. The local authorities are spending lots of money (which we don't have) in an attempt to protect this man and his ever dwindling flock. He admitted this a.m. that he has lost many followers. Many locals and not so locals have outwardly protested his views and actions. Neighbors living by the church live in fear because of this man and his views and he and his assistant carry concealed weapons for protection. He's proud of what he did as are those that follow him. Some Local businessmen (mostly those in the food service industry) fear what might happen if someone decides to fight fire with fire so to speak and start burning businesses as a retaliatory strike against what some might see as a supportive role by the locals. 99.9% of the locals look at this man for what he is: an extremist with extremist views. Locals certainly do not condone his actions and hate the fact that the world hears about their town being associated with this person. He's laughed at by many and scorned by many more. We hate the fact the press continues to give him air time and space in the paper because it strokes his massive ego. We've had issues with this church before and this is not the first time we've dealt with his lightening rod personality. Gainesville is a good town and this man and his views are not the views of most who live here.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
I'm interested to hear that most folks in Gainesville don't support this fellow and what he stands for. As I said above, free speech does not extend to shouting "fire!" in a crowded theatre, which is what this guy has done. I don't think you can get him to change his ways, and I'm absolutely certain he will never admit that what he did is wrong, but you COULD try and close him down- has he violated any municipal ordinance that you all could hang it on? It seems to me someone ought to try to stuff a cork in this shithead's mouth.
Jimmy (Patton), and Jim (Rosenthal),
You guys are so right.
This is an issue where fundamentalism of ANY form subsumes the majority thinking.
Most of us live in the middle ground, where compromise forms part of our daily lives. Unfortunately there are some who choose to live outside of this area where everyone gets along peaceably.
Freedom of speech is a major tenet of democratised countries, but it does have it's limits. Those freedoms are hard fought, and hard won.
Loonies like the pastor stretch those boundaries to breaking point, and yet we let him speak. This is surely because to gag him would be a slippery slope, which none of us would like to go down, as we pretty much know where that would end.
Maybe it's the topic of another thread, but where does freedom of speech end and gagging begin. I honestly don't know the answer, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...
Cheers,
Graham.
You guys are so right.
This is an issue where fundamentalism of ANY form subsumes the majority thinking.
Most of us live in the middle ground, where compromise forms part of our daily lives. Unfortunately there are some who choose to live outside of this area where everyone gets along peaceably.
Freedom of speech is a major tenet of democratised countries, but it does have it's limits. Those freedoms are hard fought, and hard won.
Loonies like the pastor stretch those boundaries to breaking point, and yet we let him speak. This is surely because to gag him would be a slippery slope, which none of us would like to go down, as we pretty much know where that would end.
Maybe it's the topic of another thread, but where does freedom of speech end and gagging begin. I honestly don't know the answer, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...
Cheers,
Graham.
But Graham, since you mentioned the "Adolf Hitler" words we're now going to be subject to Godwin's Law
Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Just looked it up.... DAMN! you got me
Pat
Supporter
The pastor can argue he was simply exercising his constitutional right of free speech and practice of religion. True, but it’s just as abhorrent as the Westboro Baptist Church protesters who display “Thank God for dead soldiers” signs near military funerals. They profit handsomely from the notoriety they otherwise could never have legitimately obtained. Any recognition of this overt hatred just fuels the fire. They have a right to speak, but not the right to force us to listen, or the media to sensationalize. IMHO, they are pathetic hatemongers who are best served with a cold shoulder.
What I find most objectionable is that while both Afghan and international news media initially (and appropriately) played down or ignored the actions of the Florida pastor, on Thursday President Karzai made a speech and issued statements condemning the Koran burning and calling for the arrest of Mr. Jones for his actions. On Friday, that theme was picked up in mosques throughout Afghanistan and the murderous rampages began. There is a lot of stupidity (and corruption) to go around. I read where Qayum Baabak, a political analyst in Mazar-i-Sharif was quoted as saying “Karzai’s speech itself provoked people to take such actions,” “Karzai should have called on people to be patient rather than making people more angry.”...
And we put this guy in power and give him and his crooked family $ billions. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid +1
Jim (Rosenthal), Pat (Veek),
Thoughts and time have been given as to how to deal with Jones locally but its a slippery slope as many have said in this thread. The constitution is a powerful document and as in many instances of power their are those who are going to use that power for both good and evil. Jones could never have imagined in his wildest dreams that he, his small church and now even smaller following would get world wide attention for "his" beliefs and teachings. He's loving every damn moment of it. My friend Veek hit the nail on the head we need to cut of his "air supply" {read: media air time} and let the man choke knowing he's a small time zealot and no ones listening.
Thoughts and time have been given as to how to deal with Jones locally but its a slippery slope as many have said in this thread. The constitution is a powerful document and as in many instances of power their are those who are going to use that power for both good and evil. Jones could never have imagined in his wildest dreams that he, his small church and now even smaller following would get world wide attention for "his" beliefs and teachings. He's loving every damn moment of it. My friend Veek hit the nail on the head we need to cut of his "air supply" {read: media air time} and let the man choke knowing he's a small time zealot and no ones listening.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Jimmy,
As limiting freedom of speach, is a non-starter, it seems that the only way to handel this clown and the other "religious" clowns who go to funerals to creat a "media oppertunity" is to ignore them.
Unortunatly much of todays media lives on controversy. As we are talking about this, so are many other groups, and the perps are getting what they want.
It seems to me that the only way to stop this sort of thing is for the media to ignor them. It will be tough for the media, as this sells papers/comercials.
We the people must tell the media that we do not want them to give these "hate groups" media coverage. We need to vote with words and actions. Tell them not to cover this and do not watch programs that do!
I know there is little chance of this succeding, but I can't think of any other method.
Can anyone else think of a solution?
As limiting freedom of speach, is a non-starter, it seems that the only way to handel this clown and the other "religious" clowns who go to funerals to creat a "media oppertunity" is to ignore them.
Unortunatly much of todays media lives on controversy. As we are talking about this, so are many other groups, and the perps are getting what they want.
It seems to me that the only way to stop this sort of thing is for the media to ignor them. It will be tough for the media, as this sells papers/comercials.
We the people must tell the media that we do not want them to give these "hate groups" media coverage. We need to vote with words and actions. Tell them not to cover this and do not watch programs that do!
I know there is little chance of this succeding, but I can't think of any other method.
Can anyone else think of a solution?
This must be a 1st Jim.....I agree with you completely on this one:worried:
