They're Watching You......
- Thread starter Keith1
- Start date
"Constitution CRAP"? Really...
More people in this country ought to be "pushing" it. There are far too many who have your attitude, IMHO. That's why politicians have been able to get away with much of the real "crap" they've pulled over the years.
And, BTW, you do understand you have the option of ignoring any or all of my posts...as I do with regard to yours or anyone else's. So, from that fact alone it's obvious that I'm really not capable of 'pushing anything down anyone's throat' as you've charged...am I.
I can't believe you actually said that! I'd better stop here...
Pat
Supporter
Let's see... Das Kapital, Kritik der politischen Ökonomie was published by Marx in 1867.
U.S. Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787 and last amended in 1992.
Seem like the latter is more current than the far trendier former.
Out of curiosity, for those of you that want it thrown out, which parts do you find objectionable?
U.S. Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787 and last amended in 1992.
Seem like the latter is more current than the far trendier former.
Out of curiosity, for those of you that want it thrown out, which parts do you find objectionable?
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
I thought the one thing that Americans agreed on was the upholding and sanctity of their constitution.
I'm surprised.
I'm surprised.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah...my bad then! Things appeared otherwise...after all, there are those who...eeeeeeh, never mind!
'Guess until now I hadn't paid any attention to your 'leanings'...so to speak.
...I'm going to my room now.:freak:
(I probably shudda known 'gooder'. I make similar posts all the time...BUT, in defense of my illustrious self, my first couple of 'shots' or so are usually accompanied by a "lol" icon or the like. So there! SUE me!)
'Guess until now I hadn't paid any attention to your 'leanings'...so to speak.
...I'm going to my room now.:freak:
(I probably shudda known 'gooder'. I make similar posts all the time...BUT, in defense of my illustrious self, my first couple of 'shots' or so are usually accompanied by a "lol" icon or the like. So there! SUE me!)
Don't think I can side with you on that one Jim (Craik). Actually I fault Obama for not eliminating these intrusive and unconstitutional domestic spying programs that Bush and Cheney initiated. It took Snowden to get this crap out in the open. To you Brits, Aussies, and Kiwis: would domestic spying like this be illegal in your countries?
Pat
Supporter
I don't want to burst anyone's bubble here but there is no "if" as to whether allies in the UK and elsewhere participate in domestic spying. These programs aren't new, the PRISM program dates back to the '70s.
From the Washington Post:
"But the PRISM program appears to more nearly resemble the most controversial of the warrantless surveillance orders issued by President George W. Bush after the al-Qaeda attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Its history, in which President Obama presided over exponential growth in a program that candidate Obama criticized, shows how fundamentally surveillance law and practice have shifted away from individual suspicion in favor of systematic, mass collection techniques."
U.S., British intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies in broad secret program - The Washington Post
After 9/11, Mr. Bush certainly amped it up as did Mr. Obama. What's new is the capacity for the government to do it.
But we're looking at the tip of the iceberg. This fall the government capability improved dramatically.
NSA Utah Data Center - Serving Our Nation's Intelligence Community
But I want to everyone reading this to know, I pay all my taxes and love the administration.
Did you guys in Utah copy that???
From the Washington Post:
"But the PRISM program appears to more nearly resemble the most controversial of the warrantless surveillance orders issued by President George W. Bush after the al-Qaeda attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Its history, in which President Obama presided over exponential growth in a program that candidate Obama criticized, shows how fundamentally surveillance law and practice have shifted away from individual suspicion in favor of systematic, mass collection techniques."
U.S., British intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies in broad secret program - The Washington Post
After 9/11, Mr. Bush certainly amped it up as did Mr. Obama. What's new is the capacity for the government to do it.
But we're looking at the tip of the iceberg. This fall the government capability improved dramatically.
NSA Utah Data Center - Serving Our Nation's Intelligence Community
But I want to everyone reading this to know, I pay all my taxes and love the administration.
Did you guys in Utah copy that???
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Dave,
I could argue both sides of this program, a good part of me sees this as a huge intruson. I certinally felt that way when the Bush Cheney gang originally set this up.
I was surprised that President Obama did not curtail this practice when first elected. I have given this a good deal of thought and this is what I have come up with.....
To have immediatly stopped this program, Obama would have been painted by the right (Cheney and the old school Republicans) as nieve and not up to the job of protecting America. (of course he was anyway)
Additionally any successful terrorist style attack that would later be traced back to the internet, the right and the people would NEVER stop condeming him......
Another thought, when Obama did not immediately stop this program, I though perhaps when shown the data, the type of folks and plots they were watching he could see the need to continue.
Dave, it seems that we know of several devious plots have been stopped and its entirly possible that we don't know all the successes. But rest assured we would know of any failures.
On top of that, how many plots were never started because they know we are watching?
Now about this most recent deal with the car bomb at the airport, if the co-conspiritor was another terrorist and not a US agent, we might just have had many, many deaths and a perminant disruption at all airports (searching every single car forever)............thats an intrusion too.
I could argue both sides of this program, a good part of me sees this as a huge intruson. I certinally felt that way when the Bush Cheney gang originally set this up.
I was surprised that President Obama did not curtail this practice when first elected. I have given this a good deal of thought and this is what I have come up with.....
To have immediatly stopped this program, Obama would have been painted by the right (Cheney and the old school Republicans) as nieve and not up to the job of protecting America. (of course he was anyway)
Additionally any successful terrorist style attack that would later be traced back to the internet, the right and the people would NEVER stop condeming him......
Another thought, when Obama did not immediately stop this program, I though perhaps when shown the data, the type of folks and plots they were watching he could see the need to continue.
Dave, it seems that we know of several devious plots have been stopped and its entirly possible that we don't know all the successes. But rest assured we would know of any failures.
On top of that, how many plots were never started because they know we are watching?
Now about this most recent deal with the car bomb at the airport, if the co-conspiritor was another terrorist and not a US agent, we might just have had many, many deaths and a perminant disruption at all airports (searching every single car forever)............thats an intrusion too.
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I like the explanation given by Robert Redford in 'the last castle', where he explains the salute dates from when Knights would use their right hand to raise the face-guards of their helmets as they approached another Knight, to show who they are.
May not be true, but sounds plausible, and makes a nice story.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
It's time for a graph!!!
I believe successive British Governments since WWII have been at the forefront of domestic spying. It's never been legal, but as we don't have a constitution and therefore 'no rights' there ain't much we can do about it.
I would qualify this by saying that many terrorists plots have been foiled by this intelligence - some of which were bound for the USA. It doesn't completely justify what they are doing, but it takes the 'edge' off the offence, for me anyway.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Not legal in Oz either, but happens all the time. Anyone want to talk about cricket?
Take a look at this. It's a story about the RAF use of Reaper drones in Afghanistan, but what surprised me is the advance in camera resolution.
Make sure you view the video. The detail is astounding.....
RAF pilot unleashes hell on Taliban from the comfort of an armchair in Lincolnshire | Mail Online
Make sure you view the video. The detail is astounding.....
RAF pilot unleashes hell on Taliban from the comfort of an armchair in Lincolnshire | Mail Online
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