Tucson

Ok , so I'm still researching , but so far I've found .....

The target map =
has been up for a year or so . And the wording , while gun related , to the best of my ability to decipher , is about Dems. that voted for health care , that were to be voted out of office .

The "don't retreat , reload , and aim for Democrats =
could have been said - don't feel defeated , regroup , and vote them out of office .
not as strong , but feels better maybe . no style . not her style . Maybe a reason for you not to vote for her , if you don't already have enough , that is if she runs , She may never be anything more than a fluffer . Or a ruffler . She sure gets noticed !

The shoot auto weapon =
An add for an event that was to take place 6/12/10 @ 1-:00am
and read :
Get on Target for Victory in November
Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office
Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly
Cost =$50.

Event was canceled !

And I just found this , which I find startling . It took the Sheriff 15-20 minutes to show up , and the EMS came 30 minutes later . WOW !

The bulls eye target was used to train troops to shoot around WW1 .
Large percentage of troops would not shoot at enemy until life in danger .
By WW2 the human upper body silhouette was employed , and a higher percentage would engage the enemy .
So next came the Video projected on walls in a room , which lead to computer simulation , which was developed for consumer use .

So the Democrats were using outdated , ineffective targets on their map , and Palin used a James Bond movie opening title target . or so it seems .

And listen to our president ? wouldn't do that , He's a politician , If his lips are moving , he's lying !

Never said he was "my" president!

No matter how you explain that no one intended for someone to be shot or harmed, this will carry on, it has a life of it's own. People will believe what they want to believe, no matter how strange or far fetched. If their person says something equally as bad, "it was taken out of context, he apologized for saying it". They want Palin crucified and are well on their way to doing so. She never could have been president anyway, it's a waste of time and effort.
 
And found that Sharron Angle , who was supported by the tea party for the senate in Nevada , warned that people might seek " second Amendment remedies " if they don't get what they want from congress .

And as far as the TEA party (TEA standing for Taxed Enough Already ) and violence , In my area anyway , it is discouraged . And always has been .
More of an against politics as usual movement , than a militant movement .
I have attended Democrat , Republican , and TEA party rallies over the last couple of years . Even a TEA party rally , and a gun show on the same day this past year , think I'm on a watch list somewhere ? And noticed the Democrats , and Republicans drew a younger , rowdier group . While the TEA party drew an older group , that was generally quieter . Seemed to listen closer , and ask a lot of questions .

And I found the poster with the targets from sarahpac.com
IT says
20 House Democrats from districts we carried in 2008 voted for the health care bill .... ITS TIME TO TAKE A STAND.
the map with cross-hairs / a list of 20 names
Let's take back the 20, together !
JOIN ME TODAY signed by Palin

It really is a piece it together over time from here and there kind of thing . Great for puzzle builders , and politicians alike !
 
When someone is in the spotlight, no matter what they say, it can be twisted and added to, to look damning. When Jesse Davis was running against Giffords said he was for the Fair Tax. Gifford's people ran ads saying that he wanted to raise taxes by 23% along with regular taxes. The Fair Tax is a stand alone tax with no other taxes, people who did not take the time to be knowledgeable about the tax (most people) voted against Davis. The "shoot a M16 on full auto with me" by Davis was asking people to come to a shooting range and fire a M16 on full auto. Twisted and massaged it comes out that he wants people to shoot Giffords with a M16 on full auto. Most people believe that if it is in print, it's gospel. The politicians are good at the art of twisting the truth and saying it enough until it becomes the truth.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Al,

Like I have said, any of these things taken by it's self could be innocent. Taken together they are much more sinister.

Yes Al, Obama made a similar type of comment ONCE, several years ago. He was talking about football fans. When called on this, he immediately apologized and it never happened again.

When Palin, Angle and the Tea Party folks were called on it they just kept on with their murderous rhetoric.

No mater who uses this type of talk, it is not acceptable!

Al,

Rather than continually supporting this talk and looking for excuses, you should be condeming it in the strongest way.

You have never said this type of gun talk is WRONG, you just defend it. That makes you part of the problem. You must be so proud.
 
Well aren't you special, you probably don't fart either! :)

Al,

Constructive counter argument ?

As you seem to be feeling a bit sensitive and left, out I don't care what everyone else thinks, I think you are great and special to. :)
 
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Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Jim
things should be taken in context , and I'm not sure I understand the full scope of what was said ....I can not believe that Palin , or anybody else for that matter , is calling to arms to win an election ......
Are guns popular there ?
Is hunting popular there ?
Is carrying a firearm popular there ?
As far as I'm concerned , life is dangerous , and you have to be taught to steer clear of that which will harm you . That means being exposed to all the germs so you can build up anti-bodys , and resistance to them .

Gosh, Frank, I'm not sure where to start...

Since you used a story to illustrate your beliefs, perhaps a true, personal story might serve as a beginning: when I was in college back in the 1970's I befriended an art major who became the boyfriend of a lady I knew. He became my best friend, we were inseparable for many years until the inevitable relocations separated us geographically, me in TX and him in PA. I was back in KS 10 years ago and just on a whim called his mother, asking about him, and within half an hour he was on the phone to me. How cool! We were instantly sympatico again....until the election of "Bee-OH!". He was never politically "involved", but like all of us he has political beliefs, and his didn't agree with the majority of Americans in the last election. He became bitter and angry, almost impossible to be around. It seemed he was preoccupied with the political changes to the exclusion of all else. Loved ones around him, and friends, were unable to reduce his angst.......but, having been a good friend for such a long time, I continued to tolerate his incessant outbursts against Obama's "socialist" leanings......until one day, he was talking about buying a high-powered rifle. Now, this guy had served in Vietnam, and I remember very well his pacifist leanings, so this was a shock to me, and even further perplexing b/c I know he is not a hunter. Finally, I asked him why he wanted a rifle when he doesn't hunt and of course I got the full diatribe regarding the government's intent to abolish private citizens' right to own arms....we discussed and debated the Constitution and how difficult that would be for any president to accomplish, but in the end what really creeped me out was a comment he made during one of our discussions, he said he wanted to be able to "....reach out and touch someone". I was speechless, this was a lifelong friend who to my knowledge had never wished anyone any harm, and yet here he was "promoting" armed violence against those with whom he disagreed. My concern was further heightened when I found an "open letter" to Obama in one of his art journals...filled with hatred and obvious infatuation with the idea that Obama is a prime candidate for assasination. Now I have no doubt in my mind that if Obama is ever assassinated my "ex-friend" will have had something to do with it. I mentioned to him how much I longed to have the "old Mike" back, and his response was the "old Mike" would return when the war with the current administration is over. I broke off all contact with him and have not spoken to him for over a year now, and this was the individual who I considered the best friend I had in my whole life. I watched as he was changed by the inflamatory rhetoric in the news media (Fox News Network, particularly) and in the "conservative" internet groups to which he belongs. So, I for one can attest to the changes that can be wrought in what seemed like "stable" individuals by the combative rhetoric the right wing has used since a "left-leaning" president was elected by the people of the US. Never underestimate the power of the media, both positive and negative. The radical right has deprived me of the best friend I ever had.....

The "don't retreat , reload , and aim for Democrats = could have been said - don't feel defeated , regroup , and vote them out of office . ... not her style .....And listen to our president ? wouldn't do that , He's a politician , If his lips are moving , he's lying !

Sure, what Palin meant "COULD HAVE BEEN SAID" in a manner in which you mentioned......but as for it not being Palin's style, I call BS on your assertion. Palin is a gun toting (not that there is anything wrong with that) "patriot", and any rhetoric that involves "reload and aim" to me seems to smack of incitement to violence to me, and I'm easy going and non-violent in nature. It could EASILY do so for someone with the mentally twisted views that the perpetrator of these senseless attacks is becoming well known for.

As for your warning not to listen to Obama's words, b/c by virtue of being a politician they are lies, I'd again call BS on you.....I happen to like Obama for having carried through on many of his campaign promises, he has gotten "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" effectively repealed, like he promised (regardless of what your opinion is regarding whether that is advisable or not), he managed to get health care reform implemented, like he promised, he got us out of Iraq (well, MOSTLY out), in strict opposition to the intentions of his oponent, like he promised. Sure, politicians twist and otherwise distort the truth at times, but it is not just this politician, it is ALL politicians. That makes our president no better than any other possible choice, but also makes him no worse in that respect.

I like the current rhetoric regarding both political parties working together rather than being so polarized, but when the emotion of this sad event that brought so many "enemies" to think alike is over, I have no doubt that the political parties will return to their previous practices. The only bright spot in this is that the House is now controlled by the Republicans, which means that in order to get ANYTHING done there will have to be some, however minimal, cooperation and compromise between parties.

As for the inflamatory rhetoric practiced by the radical right wing "news" organizations (and I use that term hesitantly), as long as they continue to practice their beliefs that they can say whatever they want with impunity, there will be highly impressionable individuals on both sides of the fence within our society who will feel "empowered" to commit acts of senseless violence such as we have witnessed in Arizona in the name of "patriotism".

Cheers from Doug!!!
 
Al,

Like I have said, any of these things taken by it's self could be innocent. Taken together they are much more sinister.

Yes Al, Obama made a similar type of comment ONCE, several years ago. He was talking about football fans. When called on this, he immediately apologized and it never happened again.

When Palin, Angle and the Tea Party folks were called on it they just kept on with their murderous rhetoric.

No mater who uses this type of talk, it is not acceptable!

Al,

Rather than continually supporting this talk and looking for excuses, you should be condeming it in the strongest way.

You have never said this type of gun talk is WRONG, you just defend it. That makes you part of the problem. You must be so proud.

Taken together, it's a bunch of different people using like signage and words to convey a point to unseat the democrat and vote in the republican or tea party candidate. You see it as a sinister plot to kill democrats because some unrelated wack job with no political ties killed some innocent people. Nowhere has it been said that ANY of the signage or words led him to commit this act. You are asking that we control the words that people and business utter so as not to be misconstrued by you or those like you. Your concern is not for those that were shot, but for the political gain you can achieve. You however will continue this rant, have fun.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Al,

I never said anything about controlling speach!

The First Amendment is the cornerstone of our Country, no one it talking about " controlling speach".

What I am saying and have been saying well before this most recent tragic incedent is that public figures who people should look up to and should be roll models need to be just that. Roll Models!

The Palins and Lombaughs of the world know their words have a great deal influence and should be chosen carefully!


Al, I will ask this simple question once again...........

Are you OK with public figures using words like 2nd Amendment solution, don't retreat, reload and help remove by shooting a fully automatic weapon?

Al it is an easy question, yes or no!
 
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Charlie Farley

Supporter
Jim,
Im trying to dechipher your post.
But you make it hard.
By " Roll " models , do you mean " Role " ?
By " incedent " , do you mean " incident " ?
Please confirm, otherwise i may shoot the wrong way !
Touche , " Untermenschen "
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
"The Palins and Lombaughs of the world know their words have a great deal influence and should be chosen carefully!"

Guess you should do the same.
 
Doug
I feel you did what you could do for your friend , and made the right choice to distance yourself from him . If I was in that situation I may even go as far as to make mention to the Sheriff of the situation . And hopefully it would turn out better than it did in Tucson . Where the Sherif had been aware of this guy sense 2007 ? And don't even think to say I'd be ratting on a friend , his suggested actions would not have a positive affect on anything , and are harming him and his family , and his relationships right now ! You see that firsthand . He needs help !

What I was said about what Palin said was meant as , her style as a gun toting patriot is to say what she said . And not to say it the way I suggested it could have been said . So your call of BS has no grounds !
Al , and Doug ,
What Palin said , I didn't take the way you did , so it does not bother me .
Maybe I should be bothered by that , but I'm not sure weather its you or me I should be bothered by , how ever it bothers me your bothered by it !
However what Sharron Angle said does concern me , and is in bad form . poor loser ! And I for one would not elect her to office - that would be a vote against that behavior and speech !

I did not warn not to listen to Obama , or any other politician for that matter . They should be payed very close attention .
I was answering Al , flippantly , where he replied to Jim .

And it warms me that your happy with Obama ( do you notice hardly anyone call him President Obama ? unless he is mentioned in the overseas news ) but I still , no matter how many promises they keep , inherently do not trust any politician , or lawyer , or used car salesman . Hell , I don't even trust me , especially around fresh baked cookies my wife just pulled from the oven ! She told me not to touch them but I can't help it .
Human-beings manipulate the truth to suit their selfs , politicians are just the best at it . Thats how they got there , while were here discussing them on a car forum .
My concerns help me to keep up on whats happening , watching both sides , and the middle , all playing against each other , with anything goes !

Al ,
it isn't the speech , Its the politicians and anything goes from BOTH sides that needs to change !

Doug , and everybody
please stop blaming only the "right wing " or the "left wing" or the as yet mentioned Communist Party of America (they have web sites and blogs also ) When you step back a moment , they all are doing the same .
And I believe whole - heartedly that it will all come to violence in the streets , like we see happening more and more around the world , if people don't band together and use some common sense !

Please do all you can to teach the impressionable individuals to use peaceable common sense , and not hysterical violence . And how to deal with the rhetoric . >YOU< empower them to enlightenment and zen, or something like that .
Don't leave it to the government to do for you . It wont happen ! Their too busy .

Now I have other business to take care of ..... my wife just came home with beer !
 
Some of you gun totin' yee haa boys scare the fuck out of me...

If ANY of our politicians used the language that your guys do (Palin, lungBlaugher), then they would be sectioned under the mental health act.

I thought Obama's speech was excellent and hit exactly the right tone.

All this crap about "don't retreat. reload!" is disgusting. It is inflammatory to say the least, and is a call to arms to every whacko you guys have got.

You may consider the link tenuous between her farting from the mouth and the killings, but it is there nonetheless.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Al,

I take it from your lack of answer, that you are OK with politicians using this type of gun rhetoric.
 
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