What do you think?

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Obama should share his legal justification for collecting Verizon

I'm curious for your collective take on this. An invasion of privacy or justified?


CLEARLY it's an unconstitutional and totally illegal invasion of privacy.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES, shall NOT be violated, and no WARRANTS shall issue, BUT OPON PROBABLE CAUSE, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the PERSONS or THINGS to be seized." (4th Amend)

There is NO WAY - NO WAY - Obama & Co can p-o-s-s-i-b-l-y have "probable cause" to do a BLANKET SEARCH of e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e's phone call records, blah, blah, blah. If you or I did what the Obama admin is doing, WE'D GO TO PRISON.
 
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Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is to thank our collective lucky stars that Romney, who demonstrated such an incredible predelection toward secrecy that he refused to reveal his income records as had presidential candidates for many decades past, did not win!

No, I'm not trying to stir up some political shirt, although the very nature of this thread IS political, I'm just saying that one of the basic tenants of psychology is that past behavior is the most accurate predictor of future behavior.

As for what BO is doing...I doubt seriously that it is any more eggregious than what past administrations, both Dem and Repub, have done. There is a lot of that sort of stuff that goes on that we never find out about....but, IMHO, that doesn't make it right. There is something about governments that makes them corrupt in nature, it leads to granting themselves unnecessary powers, and when you do that you can also ensure yourself the freedom from scrutiny. It's not BO, it's the nature of the beast.

My daughter just hopped onto my AT&T cell phone plan, left Verizon. I can't imagine there's anything she needs to worry about if BO's henchmen got her phone records...and she doesn't exactly lead a "clean" life....a bit of a rebel is she regarding some of the illegal drug laws...

In the end, I guess I think we're going to have to put up with a bit of abuse in our "anonymnity", which I treasure very much, to maybe ensure we are free from other transgressions. The Patriot Act may well have not done us as many favors as we thought, eh?

Cheers! Let's hear the opposing viewpoints, please!

Doug
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is to thank our collective lucky stars that Romney, who demonstrated such an incredible predelection toward secrecy that he refused to reveal his income records as had presidential candidates for many decades past, did not win!

Doug


:lipsrsealed::lipsrsealed::lipsrsealed:
 
Is this the beginning of the Fall of the American empire?

This is one where the silent Majority needs to get up and Cane the polliticians, Tell them that this is not good enough.
 
Is this the beginning of the Fall of the American empire?

This is one where the silent Majority needs to get up and Cane the polliticians, Tell them that this is not good enough.

Obviously, you don't realize that would be considered a racist hate crime.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter


...and if you noticed, the NYT edited that sentence a couple hours later to read "...has lost all credibility ON THIS ISSUE (emp. mine)." IOW - backtrack city.

Once in bed with Obama - always in bed with Obama.

It's really 'strange' when one thinks about it...Obama doesn't know squat about Benghazi...'doesn't know squat about the IRS targeting conservative groups/individuals...'doesn't know squat about Fast and Furious...'doesn't know squat about the A.P. or James Rosen thing...'doesn't seem to know squat about ANYTHING.

'Guess Clint Eastwood was right after all, huh. (Hint: empty chair)

Even Chris Mathews said 'the steering wheel doesn't control the car anymore'!!! Now, when "thrill up his leg" Mathews is teed off.............well...........!!! (I wonder if he's on oxygen during the commercial breaks? Ya think?)
 
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honestly I don't no what all the hype is about, if you aint got nothing to hide, you got nothing to worry about, well that's the way I think anyway, how else are they going to be able to track down terrorist cells, and the like, and any other threat to both yours and my country, without the ability to have survelance. you cant have the cake and eat it as well as they say.
JMTBW
cheers John
 

Pat

Supporter
Cheers! Let's hear the opposing viewpoints, please!

Doug

Well said Doug, and in doing so you are far less likely to be the subject of targeting by the enforcement arms of the EPA, the DOJ and the IRS. You are a staunch supporter of the current Chicago politics in Washington so have far less to fear than someone like me who is on record as opposing the massive and intrusive government power complex.
So it's OK if they violate the rights of others as long as it's the "other guy".

As for Mr. Romney's taxes, now that they were released, and Mr. Reid said from the floor of the senate that Mr. Romney hadn't paid taxes in 20 years, what exactly were in those records that you found so offensive? His massive contributions to charity? The leaking of his personal donations by the IRS for exploitation by political enemies is not a big deal? Was the Obama campaign slogan "Kill Mitt Romney" never deemed offensive or the viciousness in the most vile terms directed at Mrs. Palin or Mrs. Romney without mention?

These guys scare the crap out of me and it is not exactly comforting knowing that the NSA has access to this very post. If I was seeking a 501c3 exemption, this very posting may be requested by the government to examine my suitability for it. Just think, I used to be bothered by the government telling me the seat height of my toilet, the temperature of my shower, type of doorknob I must have in my bedroom and requiring braille instructions at the drive-up teller station at the bank.
So now the people that have raised attack politics to the level of an Olympic sport have my most personal data have demonstrated the will to use such against others. What could possibly go wrong?
Doug, ask yourself this question:
What would be your reaction if a Romney administration had committed "Fast and Furious", leaked favorable classified information, ignored racial intimidation at polling places, killed innocent Americans with drones, doubled down the military commitment in Afghanistan, abandoned four Americans to die in an embassy-then repeatedly lied about it, targeted political opponents with the EPA, DOJ, DOL, and then defended itself with claims that it know none of this is happening?
If it would merit the same content as your last posting, then your views have earned my true respect.
I have come to the conclusion that Mr. Romney (as well as whoever is the opponent of Mrs. Clinton) lost (and will lose future) elections because apparently a plurality of U.S. voters will knowingly choose a shameless liar with no character who says what they want to hear over an honest person with morals who tells them the hard truths they’d rather ignore.
Note to the NSA Prism Program: Did I mention that I have paid my taxes faithfully, only used appropriate lawn fertilizers, have all required emissions controls on my car, have only ADA approved fixtures in my home, and brush my teeth three times a day - and the midget porn site was accessed in error!
 
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Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Well said Doug, and in doing so you are far less likely to be the subject of targeting by the enforcement arms of the EPA, the DOJ and the IRS. You are a staunch supporter of the current Chicago politics in Washington so have far less to fear than someone like me who is on record as opposing the massive and intrusive government power complex.
So it's OK if they violate the rights of others as long as it's the "other guy".

As for Mr. Romney's taxes, now that they were released, and Mr. Reid said from the floor of the senate that Mr. Romney hadn't paid taxes in 20 years, what exactly were in those records that you found so offensive? His massive contributions to charity? The leaking of his personal donations by the IRS for exploitation by political enemies is not a big deal? Was the Obama campaign slogan "Kill Mitt Romney" never deemed offensive or the viciousness in the most vile terms directed at Mrs. Palin or Mrs. Romney without mention?

These guys scare the crap out of me and it is not exactly comforting knowing that the NSA has access to this very post. If I was seeking a 501c3 exemption, this very posting may be requested by the government to examine my suitability for it. Just think, I used to be bothered by the government telling me the seat height of my toilet, the temperature of my shower, type of doorknob I must have in my bedroom and requiring braille instructions at the drive-up teller station at the bank.
So now the people that have raised attack politics to the level of an Olympic sport have my most personal data have demonstrated the will to use such against others. What could possibly go wrong?
Doug, ask yourself this question:
What would be your reaction if a Romney administration had committed "Fast and Furious", leaked favorable classified information, ignored racial intimidation at polling places, killed innocent Americans with drones, doubled down the military commitment in Afghanistan, abandoned four Americans to die in an embassy-then repeatedly lied about it, targeted political opponents with the EPA, DOJ, DOL, and then defended itself with claims that it know none of this is happening?
If it would merit the same content as your last posting, then your views have earned my true respect.
I have come to the conclusion that Mr. Romney (as well as whoever is the opponent of Mrs. Clinton) lost (and will lose future) elections because apparently a plurality of U.S. voters will knowingly choose a shameless liar with no character who says what they want to hear over an honest person with morals who tells them the hard truths they’d rather ignore.
Note to the NSA Prism Program: Did I mention that I have paid my taxes faithfully, only used appropriate lawn fertilizers, have all required emissions controls on my car, have only ADA approved fixtures in my home, and brush my teeth three times a day - and the midget porn site was accessed in error!


'Turns out I didn't need to post a darn thing. Well stated, sir.


I have come to the conclusion that Mr. Romney (as well as whoever is the opponent of Mrs. Clinton) lost (and will lose future) elections because apparently a plurality of U.S. voters will knowingly choose a shameless liar with no character who says what they want to hear (E.g.: "tax the rich"...Peter will always support a govt that will tax Paul) over an honest person with morals who tells them the hard truths they’d rather ignore.

...that and the fact that "takers" now obviously outnumber "makers" in this country...and they'll vote for whomever will keep the wheels greased on their gravy train...at the expense of the other guy, of course.

I'll say it again: Maggie Thatcher was right...
 
honestly I don't no what all the hype is about, if you aint got nothing to hide, you got nothing to worry about, well that's the way I think anyway, how else are they going to be able to track down terrorist cells, and the like, and any other threat to both yours and my country, without the ability to have survelance. you cant have the cake and eat it as well as they say.
JMTBW
cheers John

With all due respect, the big deal is that our Founding Fathers distrusted government and put into supreme law, the Constitution and The Bill of Rights and addressed such issues with the Fourth Amendment...

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


In 1755 (Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, Tue, Nov 11, 1755), Ben Franklin wrote: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

And final comment from me on this.... Partially because I'm sure I have made it on a list of vocal non sheeple... It's not like the government has EVER done anything dishonest, or illegal or anything that would cause us to question its integrity... Oh wait, never mind.... 98% of what it does falls into that category...
 
Please do not count me among the sheeple. I did not spend a total of nearly eleven years in combat zones (in a 20 year military career) to be persuaded to follow the flock! Pat, Larry L and Danimal nailed it IMHO! Doug also had made some good points. Nothing more to be stated here so I'll shut up now.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Please do not count me among the sheeple. I did not spend a total of nearly eleven years in combat zones (in a 20 year military career) to be persuaded to follow the flock! Pat, Larry L and Danimal nailed it IMHO! Doug also had made some good points. Nothing more to be stated here so I'll shut up now.

Thank you for your years of service, sir. :chug:

(I spent 1/2 my time in a combat zone (+ or -) as well...but my "career" was only 4 years long! 'Not fit to shine your shoes... ;))
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
What's being done is, in many cases (but not all) legal under the Patriot Act and other data collection laws, and not violative of the normal interpretations of the 4th. You don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in a lot of the data they are collecting.

That said, what's being done (and it started many years ago, has been an issue with both Democractic and Republican administrations, accelerated after 9/11 and then has been endorsed and defended by the Obama administration) is wrong and unAmerican. And needs to stop.

However, playing politics with it gets us nowhere and just allows us another tool to demonize the "other side" when in fact BOTH sides are at fault for this one.

Veek's post highlights the problem, turning it into a political game of ping pong when it is much bigger than that. You guys can play the "Romney this" or "Obama that" cards all you want, but the real issue is you have an intelligence community that is out of control and NEITHER party seems to have the balls, the will or the desire to stop it.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
I have come to the conclusion that Mr. Romney (as well as whoever is the opponent of Mrs. Clinton) lost (and will lose future) elections because apparently a plurality of U.S. voters will knowingly choose a shameless liar with no character who says what they want to hear over an honest person with morals who tells them the hard truths they’d rather ignore.

VEEK from just a few days ago:

Do we really need this kind of thing???

The name calling and hate speech is really making the forum an unpleasant place to be...

***********

Is hyperhyprocisy even a word? Good lord.
 
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