WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORUM

Will looking through GT40s.com, I have noticed that it is for people with deep pockets, I have requested for info about info on anyone that will sell chassies, bodys, parts
etc. to build a GT40. All answers are if you have 20,30,or 40 thousand dollars we will be glad to talk with you.Hay,manufactures wake up and smell the roses, there are people out hear that love the cars but cann't drop that kind of money at one time. I know you all make a great product, but also thank about the guy that wishes to save up and buy this part and that part. please aloue us the chance to be the proud owner of a GT. I myself just finished totally rebuilding a 66 GT350, it took me right at 10 years, buying parts as could afford them, now the car is perfect, thats the way I wanted to do a GT40, but non of you manufactures wish to help the little man out, you want the big bucks up front, if any of you were ever in our shoes, you would understand an would sale only a bolt if someone needed it.Wish I could join the fun, but until the attitude changes with you manufactures I and a lot others
can only set on the sideline and watch.

 

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

SHO40,

I know where you are coming from. It took me almost 7 years to finish my 40. I bought the car from an individuale that has turned out to be a FANTASTIC guy.

If you want to know how I feel about all the manufcturers of cars, check out my profile on the left. What you need to do is be patient. Keep checking this Forum's (and Ebays) for sale section and then make a move right a way.

I have NEVER bought a brand new car from FORD, Chevy, toyota,,,,etc, so why start now?! Buy from individuals, they are for most parts like you and me.

If you spend a little time and read the Forum, you will see how most of the manufacturers "FEEL ABOUT ONE ANOTHER". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

If this was my Forum, I would have a VERY SPECIAL section made for them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Ian K]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

Well, SHO40, if you read carefully, you would see this:

http://www.tornadosportscars.com/ts40/BASICCOMP.html

and

http://www.tornadosportscars.com/ts40/ROLLING.html

(google search for Tornado GT40)

Basic frame and body for $7500US, not including shipping.
Roller for $12K.
Also, the M40 is still in the works and its price
target is around $20K complete.

The frame and body are not cheap. The RF basic roller has
a lot of goodies for the price.

Ian

 

[Steve Toner]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

I guess I don't see that there's much difference between saving up for 10 years until you have enough to buy a complete kit versus buying pieces over a 10 year period. You still don't have a complete vehicle until the 10 years is up, and in the one case you have a lot of stuff cluttering up your garage for 10 years, while in the other you just have a lot of money cluttering up your bank account. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Max Walter]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

Steve, that's a very good thought for all those out there without cars already.

Alternatively (like me actually!) you could just borrow the money & buy the car, therefore saving the need to have either the parts cluttering the garage or the money cluttering the bank account! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Yes, I have to clutter someone else's account with the interest, but it was worth it not to have to wait (anymore than I had already done) - see other thread started by Dave Bilyk in GT40 Cars For Sale.

Max

 

[Mike Dozier]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

Steve

Difference is that you get to add sweat equity along
the way, and see progress made in steps.
I've done most of my projects in this manner,
since I'm not in the "deep pockets" category either.

But 10 years is a long time. Most kits not finished in 2-3
years probably never get finished. Still, to each his own.

Bob

I sympathize with you. You are right...there are few "beginner" kits for GT40s...and even those cost more
than some entire Cobra kits. It's the nature of the beast
for the most part...just too little market size.

The real problem for those of us in the US is that there is
no US based manufacturing (except ERA) which adds thousands
in transportation/duty costs. We on the Forum pray each night that someday a US based manufacturer will emerge to really challenge the foreign invaders.

MikeD

 

[Lynn Larsen]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

Steve,

I think SHO has a valid point and with the recent changes in the industry it is only going to get worse. Right now it is difficult, at best, to buy a part or two at a time. If Superformance has its way, it will become impossible. All but a very few only sell turn key minus cars. It could easily become the case that this would be the only way to buy a GT40. Not only does it make it almost impossible for the guy who wants to build his car a little at a time, it also stifles creativity to a large degree as everyone will have the same cookie cutter car; that is unless, again, you have more money than you know what to do with or than you have sense. This market is sorely lacking a vendor who can facilitate individuality and an installment based purchase plan. I think there are those out there who see this and would like to fill this niche; however, they have a VERY hard time getting capitalized because the whole financial world's focus is insanely myopic. As a result and unfortunately, these problems are not unique to the specialty car market.

I know it is bad taste to complain about something without suggesting a solution, but I don't know what the solution is. Hopefully, there are smarter, more financially astute people out there than I am who can develop a solution.

 

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

[ QUOTE ]
If Superformance has its way, it will become impossible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you please expand this Lynn? I haven't heard the news/rumors. Thanks.

 

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

Lynn & MikeDD,Thanks for your suport.
The ten years it took me to build the GT350,6 years was getting all the correct parts the 4 years was spent really getting serious about the project with 2 years of the 4 fighting cancer. If I can find a chassie, a body, a piece
here and a piece there, then it will be easser to afford,at lest I will have something to work with and look forward to,personel I would like parts collecting dust in my garage.

 

[Ian K]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

SHO40 -

I posted links for Tornado. There is a thread called
Startup Advice Needed that lists other sources of
basic kits which you can buy, and then source parts
as you go.

All of the manufacturers started out the same way. They
were people who built their GT40s bit by bit. They all
basically realized how much easier it is to sell a
complete kit, so the buyer does not have to hunt for
obscure parts or machine new ones. Also, they can
guarantee some sort of quality control and guarantee
their parts work together.

What you are asking for is not unheard of. The sources
are there. All of these manufacturers would prefer you
buy a complete kit, but most will sell you the basic
kit. I guess I just do not agree with your rant because
what you want is out there. Contact Andy Sheldon at Tornado
or MDA (Mark Sibley I think). You'll find the answers you're
looking for.

Ian

 

[Mike Dozier]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

Ian

Pre-owned starter kits or partial builds are not "readily available" in the US. And new "starters" are not what I would call inexpensive for just a basic frame and body.
Particularly considering the transportation costs.

Of course if you're willing to wait 10 years, I suspect things will be different. Hopefully a lot sooner!!!

MikeD

 

[Mike Dozier]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

SHO40 (Bob)

You have a PM.

MikeD

 

[40 Bud]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

There is also a little thing called borrowing. If you have credit available you can save part of the money, borrow the rest and make your monthly payments over 5 years while you have a complete kit in hand to build over the 5 years.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

I think the best way to get a good GT40 replica at a reasonable price is to find a used GTD in the UK. To be sure, the prices were much better before the exchange rate went nuts, but it will come down again and it will be possible. Or, you can look for a used or unfinished GTD over here- they aren't common but they do exist.
GTNZ, which I gather is now over here, does starter kits, so does RF; this places them within the means of someone who is working on a small budget but who has time to put into the project. Sweat equity always makes the project cheaper in dollars and dearer in time, but most of us have more time than money.
Most of the people on this forum are working folks who have gone without other things to get/build a GT40. Even some of the owners of original cars are people who bought them when they did not fetch the stratospheric price they now command. The things I like about this forum is that the only qualification for entry is liking GT40s...and the fact that the tone of discourse is generally quite benign. Unlike some other places I've seen.
Finally, one thing we've not talked about is fractional or shared ownership of cars like these. As I accumulate more cars, I realize that the number of days in the year that I can drive any one of them is limited by weather, my job, and the fact that I try to get seat time in all of them so they don't suffer from disuse. I wish there was a mechanism for shared ownership of cars like these, similar to what folks do with yachts and airplanes, but so far I've not seen it. Shared building and ownership would be a related concept.

 

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

Hershal Byrd finished his RF in like 7 to 8 months. It seems that some people can finish their gt40s in no time flat but some people like to take longer.

 

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

At the risk of being crass, I'm not sure anyone out there is under an obligation to provide inexpensive packages. Perhaps there is truth in saying this is for deep pockets people. Hell, I want a sixty foot yacht and I want to be able to go to Monaco to watch F1. And I want naked 18 year old's with me!

My point is that sometimes things we want are not attainable or available. Most manufacturers like to bundle, look at Microsoft. And if I had worked hard to create a product like a GT40 replica, I would want to protect my investment in two ways. One, make back what I sunk into it, and two, protect my brand. Say someone sells bits and pieces and it ends up being assembled and looking like trash. Someone asks him what brand and he says XX. What does that do for the perceived value of the brand?

I waited for four years until I could afford this thing, and I still have a few pieces left to purchase and assemble. But that's okay. By the time I'm done, that will be about six years from dreaming until the road.

That's life. Sorry for being an unsympathetic jackass.

(And I do think Ian is right, although maybe not for the price you are looking for.)

 

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

I forgot to include you could build your own like some out there are doing...I wish I had that kind of talent and time.

 

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

I am in agreement to a degree with SHO40s position, I also think some very good points have been made through the responses to his original post.
In my personal expierience with this board over the past couple of years there seems to be a few levels of GT40dom.

The first being the guy who doesnt know much about the market and would consider a Avenger, some Fiero rebody or VW tubbed car a reasonable approach to a replica (or more acuratly, taking the kit car approach), IMHO not an option.

The second tier (which I probably fall into) is after looking into all of the current replicas, RF, CAV, MDA, DRB and Tornado among others, the decision that his wallet wont allow for any running car for some months (or even years) even after a substanstial purchase of a replica in "Kit" form. This brings our #2 level enthusiast to the point of the much mentioned previuosly owned option, which in my situation made sense if for no other reason I can DRIVE my car while planning and executing a restoration to make it to my specifiaction. I, like SHO40 took a number of years to restore my '65 Mustang Fastback (not a Shelby, mind you) but while doing so, for the most part I was driving it. I dont care to comment on the cost of this, I did it for less than the kit cost, after researching the process for a little over a year. You must be able to, when the right car comes along, pony up the bucks on a moments notice, sight unseen and negotiate the cost and process of dismantling, shipping and re-assembling the car, wading through DMV procedure (and do it right). this level can be a little un-nerving and not for everyone.

The third level is the person who can afford the careful planning and investment to build a car exactly the way he wants it, frankly I wish I could move into this level, because for his patience in piecing the car together, system by system a truly outstanding example of what a GT40 replica could be is realized, but for this, a realistic person must be able to have the resources to see his project through which once more could take months, most likely, un-rushed maybe years and $60,000 or more to achieve. Am I being fairly acurate here?

The #4 level is the guy who can just buy a brand new CAV or the like already finished, painted driving down the street $75k or more.

#5 level, the Holy Grail of GT40dom is to own an original car, if a restored, driving example (such as seen at the Historics last year) a six to seven digit peice of history.

I guess for some there exists a level 4.5 which is a new GT, but IMHO this is a differnt car all together, though I would say it is a SWEEEEET example of modern engineering basing itself on a historically significant mark, it is not the car that has been so dear to my heart for the last 35 years or so.

In summary the GT40, the replicas and the GT40s Forum means different things to different people but as a group we share the passion for a common car, and I am grateful to have such a resource as this forum to express that.

Chris

 

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

I would guess that the companies selling GT's would prefer to sell "their" box of goodies instead of letting others purchase what they feel is good enough.
Not that you as an individual, being patient and money wise couldn't purchase the same bits for less (lord knows I paid WAY to much for some parts). But by doing this they are sure the final product represents the company "correctly" Also this helps in trouble shotting any problems that may pop up. Or maybe they just want the mark up on the parts -fair business. Or maybe they are just pricks that don't want to do another price breakdown. Everyone wants something different and I'd imagine the combos could have thousands of different prices.
Oh well who knows. Do what I did, risk the house, the wife and kids - throw caution to the wind and buy it. I figured if I wanted it bad enough I'd make the money some how. Besides it'll be easy to get girlies with the GT if the wife does leave. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
She won't get the damn car - believe me!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Good luck and keep saving,
John

 

[Lynn Larsen]

Re: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS FORM

Matthew,

Its simple, Superformance's modus operandi(SP) had always been to sell only turnkey minus cars. Have you seen the adds for their cobras? "If you want to build a car, buy a model."

I think it is also pretty clear that they want to own the major part of the GT40 market. Despite all the "there is room for everyone" talk, the fact is that it just isn't that big of a market. And, if they are to recover their investment in tooling and, someday, make a profit, they have to control the major portion of the market. If they achieve that, we will have one basic choice: a turnkey minus.

In all the left over room you will have the intrepid guy who is underfunded, understaffed and overworked trying to get enough time in the day (after he is through robbing Peter to pay Paul) to build a few component kits each year.

That is the glass is half empty view. Does anyone want to take the half full angle?

Regards,
Lynn