Why (again) !

[David Morton]

Why do we have two 'clubs' in the UK. I've heard one or two reasons why, but they seem rather trivial. Why, oh, why don't we think about it again, and then get bigger and stronger with, consequently, more venues, outings, and gatherings. How many of us belong in one or the other or even both? How many does each club have ? Who has upset who in the past? AND DID IT MATTER TO ANYBODY REALLY?
Am I (a)talking herecy (b) out of my arse or (c) some semblence of sense?
Dave M

 

[Brian Magee]

I won't go into the history of why the original club split into two but the way things have developed I believe the two clubs compliment each other and see no problem. In fact I believe that if they combined, we would loose something. As things are we get eight magazines a year with very little overlap and the competition between each has improved both.
Each committee can concentrate on what they do best. The main thing is that the two clubs work together as has been shown by the GTD track day at Goodwood and the Enthusiasts Club Le Mans Classic trip.
I am happy to pay two membership fees to keep things as they are.

Brian.

 

[Simon]

I'm with David here,
I don't think it's a money thing, nor even that to those outside the club(s) that it looks like we can't "get our act together" (although I have heard that) just that surely by pooling the resources we could have a bigger, better financed club, with more members and the best of both clubs distilled into one. Both club mags are excellent (I'm a member of both clubs) but surely if they were amalgamated, then we could have an even better, more frequent magazine. The consolidation would cut overheads and enable a much clearer focus for GT40 owners.
Getting away from both names would seem the way to go rather than having one club "disappear".(The GT40 club anyone?....)
The new club could have a competition committee, a social committee and maybe an events committee (or maybe one could do all three?)
This is just my 2p worth, feel free to ignore all of the above. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Simon

 

Being new to the game of GT40's .. I would agree that having one club seems a good idea, but then again..nowt wrong with two.
Aha.. so it DID start as one. What/why was the reason to split (curiuosity really.. email me the reason if posting it would open a can of worms)

 

[Dave Gibbins]

David,

As per my GTD forum post:

I agree with you entirely – without knowing what politics have gone on in the past, it does seem to be rather ludicrous to have two clubs competing in such a limited market. Isn’t it about time personal differences were put aside for the benefit of the majority of the average club memberships rather than fulfilling the desires of a limited few?

I do believe that one combined club would serve the general membership better and focus more on what they wanted.

 

[StuartB]

Quite agree, can`t see the point of two clubs doing the same thing with twice the subs cost to members of both, half the benefits to members of only one. Big promotional outlays for show stands for one club with both clubs benefiting, half the possible antendance at meetings for each club, reasorces halfed unless your paying double subs.
Seems bloody stupid to me but I don`t know the history either, would someone (without a finacial interest) enlighten us?
By the way, I`m relativly new and joined the Enthusiasts Club last year as they had a stand and someone to talk to about my new hobby at the classics show last year.

 

[Fred/Belgium]

I do believe this make a lot of sense especially looking from a neighbourhood country(Belgium).I have now been a 4 year GT40 owner and still are confused why both clubs.To be honnest I always have trouble on identfiying who is who.
I must however confirm that both club have a lot of credibility in my view but joining forces would ceratinly make the GT40 club much stronger from the outside world.
I tought for some time to create a Belgian section but I am not sure to who and if any interest from the UK side.
A section because I believe there must be arround 12 GT40s in Belgium wich woul not make a lot of sense to create a seperate club.
PLs do consider this mail as praising both UK clubs without getting into historic or other issues that may have led to this situation.

Fred

 

[Chris E]

Obviously this is a big subject and if members want it looked at again then the Committee will do this.
Whilst I have no wish to restrict free speech, I must say that it is a shame that this has come up on the Forum rather than members approaching the Committees of the 2 clubs, which I suggest would have been a more courteous way of doing things.
All I would add at this point , is that as far as I know, the problems which led to the 2 clubs being formed are well and truly gone, and the relationship between us is one of 'friendly rivalry' which is aimed at getting the best out of us both rather than shooting each other down. The cooperative events mentioned elsewhere on this thread are examples of good practice which we intend to develop.

 

[Fred/Belgium]

Chris,

Some clarification:

1. I do not feel shamed at all and I respect your comment.
It was not at all my intention to make public remarks.

2.You will have noticed I never was involved on this subject but wanted to understand some potential synergies. You call it 'friendly rivalty' wich I respect totally.Our Belgium embleem is mentionning 'L Union fait la Force'.
My question was only to find potential synergies in case we would like to set up a Belgian GT40 'sub' club to English club(s) synergies (we are only about less than a dozen GT40 in Belgium I believe).

But you made your point and I will take necessary conclusions.
Pls consider this topic as closed and apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Fred /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Chris E]

Fred
The topic is not closed by any means.
I am more than happy for the Enthusiasts Club Committee to discuss the subject,and I'll also discuss it with Roy Smart who is Chairman of the GTD Club.
We'll then see how best to put this before members again for them to consider at future AGMs if appropriate.

 

I dont think only the members should have questioned this "outside of the forum" as potential members should be allowede to ask the question before commiting to one or both clubs. I for one would happily pay 50-60 a year to get one joint club that has 150% of the incentives/benefits of running two. As a member of the enthusiasts club , I was not aware that the GTD club had their own magazine. So I am sorely tempted to join to get that. I just feel there could be good long term benefits if the clubs joined.

And if I may add, i enjoyed the way everybody was welcome at the Goodwood trackday, club member or not.

 

[David Morton]

Chris,
I posed the question originally and I phrased it to gauge the temperature of the water. It does raise some questions as to why there are two UK clubs - but only if thats your nature to find out why. I really don't give a monkey's as to the history behind it but I do care that there could be an alternative which may just be better (I could use all sorts of superlatives i.e. greater, bigger, more vibrant, exciting, all embracing,a profile to be reckoned with and so on but thats not my style). Here in the UK there is, arguably, more -40 owners per square mile than anywhere else on earth,(it's only a small country really !) and therefore ,IMHO, the potential to have a UK club that could set the standards everybody aspires to. (I know that is already the case, but look what it might be).
Dont worry about club protocol, AGM's,free speech or anything else. Just about everybody on this forum is watching this (according to the many emails Ive had since asking the question) what the two clubs will make of what's being asked. I think I know the way forward as well but it's not for me to say. There may be plenty of people watching this forum from the outside as guests who may eventually come on line and tell us who they are and may, just may, join one or other of the various clubs but as Fred in Belgium has said, it's all a bit confusing as to what's what until your in the know, essentially its a faceless medium. (ie I didn't know what Fran Hall looked like until I saw a picture in Victors car yet we talk and email regularly [at least he does when I owe him...... ])
But I say to you and everybody else - Just look at the questions posed. If the answers are an embaressment to anybody in any way, just skip it. Nobody who has emailed me seems to care about any of that anyway. On a wider front - please guys, dont just email me alone - try and make your views known on this forum.
Lastly, is there a GT40 club in the USA ? or is this forum it?

Dave M /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Chris E]

David
I thought I made it quite clear in my 2 earlier posts that I will arrange for the committee to discuss this, so there is no need for you urge me to do so.
I do know however, that this was looked at by both clubs about 5 years ago and the answer then was a resounding NO. It will be interesting to see if the reasons have changed since then or whether members views have changed.
I would like to think that the committees of both clubs will be allowed the necessary time to look at this properly, and advice their memberships accordingly, perhaps at next years AGMs. I certainly don't have the time to rush into this, so don't expect an answer next week!

 

[David Morton]

Chris,
Yes, you did make it quite clear.
Fred made some very good points as well but I'm not sure he'll make any more.
I won't hold my breath. Four more emails came in overnight making twenty-three and a total of three are not members of either club.
Try a open ballot (maybe here on the website) and include but differentiate between members and otherwise because there are also none members who are emailing me. Then you have something meaningful to talk about next time in the corridors of power.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dave M

 

[Brian Magee]

Dave

Why do these people feel it necessary to e-mail you privately rather than let there feelings be known in public on this web site.

Brian.

 

[Malcolm]

Why not forward these emails to both committees? Feedback is always welcome.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

David,
I agree with Malcolm, then they can be discussed where relevant and any outcome could end up in the club(s) magazine.

I have my own personal feelings on the matter, but will express them to the rest of the committee when we meet, and if deemed appropriate will then speak my mind. The other solution is that if club memebers are willing to wait then we could ive a 1 pager on the situation in the next Fortyfication. (well Ron says he considers "The GTD Club magazine has always been very strong but the Enthusaists mag, in my opinon, is getting thin on account of changing editors and contributions." further to state this is " Just an opinion of course, and not living over there a realtively worthless one, but one club makes a lot of sense. ". He could of course do a Letters from America article/contribution if he wished, but who am I to say, I'm just the editor who people won't give there articles to...)

Brett

 

[Allan Feldman]

I back up Brett completely, generalisation will get us nowhere. Fortification is the heart of the enthusaist club. Everyone should contribute!!! (Aparthy is in all clubs)
I too was there at, during and after the split, I know the reasons. But I thought that this was all behind us and that both clubs were looking to the future. It just not right to be generalised , its not us and them with the clubs. Its more like family now. If the clubs want to merge then it must be majority vote though the AGM's. As far as non members are concerned their vote falls on deaf ears until they are members. If they are not sure which club they want to join. Contact both clubs or go to the website.
David it is not right that you hold a vote in this way. You go through both committees!!
Allan Feldman events

 

[David Morton]

Brian - I don't know why.
Brett - you will now have more editorial and copy for your next magazine.
Allanfeldman - I don't think anybody generalises and as far as I know nobody in either club has 'us and them' attitudes. Your comment about non members deserves to be addressed however. Surely current non members are the guys to be converted into fully fledged members (how many guys were non members last week and are now full members this week. I know the answer - do you?). I am not proposing to hold a vote no matter what you think. I simply asked the question in the first place. The future is bright........
Dave M

 

[Allan Feldman]

Dave read what I say. I said it was us and them (in past tense) and it was a family now!!!. Thats what I mean by generalisation. Only taking part of the message and not reading the whole!!! As far as new members are concerned. They have a right to their view point. Unfortunately until they are members they cannot vote. My opinion does not count, being on the committee I do what thew majority of members wish . The AGM is where is needs to be discuss and voted on. To have an unauthorised vote on the Forum would only gauge opinion. It would hold no obligation to either Clubs. But would only indicate an opinion. The best way forward was to go to the both clubs committees and raise this. As it is its in hand with Chris. And no I am not anti new members. Or anti Dave Morton . I am only against the way you went about things ie "Voting on the forum". Not your original question or opinions.
Regards Allan