Zf Rbt

Just an update for those waiting, or thinking about ordering. I do not wish to flame anyone or say anything negative. I only wish to inform! I ordered two ZF's from RBT on November 6th 2006. The factory recieved the order November 10th 2006. As many I was told three months.
I just spoke with the factory production manager and he "thinks" I should see my first box in about two weeks, and my second three weeks after that. Three months has gone to eleven months for one and twelve months for the other. I have heard numbers of three boxes per week, that is simply not the case. I have seen no increase in production rates either. I just hope to god the estimations are now accurate. Very frustrating.
 
I feel your pain. I took my ZF to RBT in March to have it rebuilt with new synchros and a new case. I'm still waiting...
 
I dont understand it. Is this outfit (RBT) really that busy that it cannot fulfill orders? Are there really 'that' many people out there ordering gearboxes that this guy is more than a year behind getting them done? Does he even know what hes doing? What sort of modern-day business runs like he is doing??
There has been more than just a few negative comments about this guy.
From the otherside of the world, this outfit looks very dodgy, perhaps incompetent or a scam. As all those are bad labels to put on anyone, can someone say otherwise?
 
The rework facility in Anaheim, CA is run by Lloyd, a one man operation. He does all the assembly.

The new boxes are fabricated by his partner in Texas and then assembled by Lloyd.
 
They are even drop shipping from Texas without Lloyd touching them. Complicated business arrangement to say the least!
The future is looking brighter with a few different options, when I placed my orders, it was only RBT for a new ZF. I would advise everyone to look at all current options before putting money down. This forum has a great wealth of information, it is good to learn from everyone's experience's.
 
I am not sure why anyone should be suprised at this turn of events. This guy ran a quiet little cottage business and all of a sudden his demand increased by 10 fold, how can one prepare for that? I am not defending his failed promises, but I certainly understand the backlog. Personally, I have never been impressed with ZF transaxles and I am hopeful some of the newer startups prove to be viable.
 
Business growth sometimes does not go in sync with projected delivery times.

From posts made by customers that have gotten their units from RBT, it appears the customers are happy with the end product, just not the wait.

For myself, I believe I would choose a ZF/RBT over a different transaxle. As far as the new trans being introduced into the marketplace, I have not heard of any up to date reports of any new units in GT40s to make a unit to unit evaluation.

I wish Lloyd good luck in the future to get his operation on more firm ground. When that happens, customer service will be improved, which will make many more happy campers out there.
 
The comparitively large number of SPF cars have obviously been a factor in this situation, but from what I have read about it a 'new' SPF owner, or any other make for that matter is left to his own devices in order to obtain the Transaxle. Thats the nature of the beast, but it means that just because SPF etc might build 50 cars or even 100 in a given period RBT would have no way of knowing that all might wish to source the trans from him. If he were to gear up to meet the current demand it may only last for a short period, leaving him with a whole lot of expensive parts & equipment to pay for! One thing that does make me wonder is how come there are so few people that are capable of rebuilding them. I suppose parts if reqd could be a problem- I have a parallel situation with a couple of Detroit Lockers that only need three parts to make them serviceable again, but since the previous owner/company has been absorbed into a larger group it has become virtually impossible to make contact with anyone interested in suppling parts to repair-- no problem selling a whole new unit, just dont seem to want me to rebuild the old-crazy.
I note Wanni & others show little interest in 'one of' sales, also while I have not actually read this anywhere, I assume that one of the reasons that virtually nobody finish's these cars to 'Turn Key' status is for liability & warranty reasons, along with cost, leaving the end owner to shoulder these responsibilities.

Jac Mac
 
The comparitively large number of SPF cars have obviously been a factor in this situation, but from what I have read about it a 'new' SPF owner, or any other make for that matter is left to his own devices in order to obtain the Transaxle. Thats the nature of the beast, but it means that just because SPF etc might build 50 cars or even 100 in a given period RBT would have no way of knowing that all might wish to source the trans from him. If he were to gear up to meet the current demand it may only last for a short period, leaving him with a whole lot of expensive parts & equipment to pay for! One thing that does make me wonder is how come there are so few people that are capable of rebuilding them. I suppose parts if reqd could be a problem- I have a parallel situation with a couple of Detroit Lockers that only need three parts to make them serviceable again, but since the previous owner/company has been absorbed into a larger group it has become virtually impossible to make contact with anyone interested in suppling parts to repair-- no problem selling a whole new unit, just dont seem to want me to rebuild the old-crazy.
I note Wanni & others show little interest in 'one of' sales, also while I have not actually read this anywhere, I assume that one of the reasons that virtually nobody finish's these cars to 'Turn Key' status is for liability & warranty reasons, along with cost, leaving the end owner to shoulder these responsibilities.

Jac Mac

Jac,
the point is that we try to avoid confusion.
The day someone will be ready to perform an LS7 installation with one clutch and one bell housing, and everybody else will follow the application, that will be feasable. After that, a Ford application, the same for everybody is welcome, and so on.
I can not manage 35 different input shafts and 25 different ratio charts.
You know, everybody is interested in this business, but there is a human limit.
I do not know how others can manage it in this way and find it profittable as well.
If I was sure that I can manage the same input shaft, the same output shafts and the same gear ratios, changing only the final drive ratio in order to match the power and the tires, this would be great. I would invent a pinion without teeth, I would assemble 50 units and ship them to US to be finished with the final drive requested.
This is feasable. To fill my store with everybody dreams is not feasable.
One application = one layout with final drive freedom
another application = another layout with final drive freedom.
etc...etc....
Soon or later this will happen. We ( european manufacturers ) are already too expensive for the change rate. If we do have to charge a risk factor to the transmission......unsellable. The matter is that you are using too many different engines with too many different powers, that's why we do like to talk with complete homologate vehicle manufacturers. They are constant for a long whle.
We do have an LS7 application ready, but it is made looking for a future automation. If everybody would accept it like it is, with the same clutch, bell housing, release bearing, and so on...this would be an affordable option.
Have a look to the ratio chart.
Ciao
Wanni
This is with 3,727. We also have:2,923 - 3,364 - 3,545 - 3,875 - 4,111 - 4,333 do adapt it better to tires and engine.
 

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Ross Nicol

GT40s Supporter
I agree with Jac Mac. I think it's unreasonable to expect a small business operator to satisfy demand way beyond expectation and he has made a decision not to be lured into gearing up for quantity manufacture. I had employees at one busy time in my business and they were a real 'PIA'. I used to work for them believe it or not. Then there is the attitude of the kids today, best way to explain to you how I feel about that!, is that I work alone. I work on my ZF Jac Mac but I think your comment about repairers is linked to the US. I've not had a problem getting parts from Lloyd but I always remain diplomatic, as I see no advantage in behaving in any other way and it's always worked for me.

Ross
 
Just a word or two in support of Lloyd Butfoy. I made the decision early on to use an RBT transaxle because I want my SPF GT40 to be as close to the original as possible. For me, that means a ZF box. Are there better alternatives? Perhaps. That's not the point for me. I wish to replicate the 60's GT40. I suspect there are some people out there who are not aware of the connection between the Butfoy name and the LeMans GT40 race teams. It was Lloyd's dad, Roy, who was in charge of the transaxles for the original race cars. For me, it was desirable to have the Butfoy name and heritage as part of my car.

Secondly, Roy is a good guy. I met him through the DeTomaso club and was immediately impressed. Unfortunately he has recently gone through some very difficult personal issues that might well have put a lesser guy out of business entirely. I feel it's important to support one of our own at times like that.

Interestingly, I now have my RBT transaxle, but I still can't finish the car. I ordered the engine a year ago from Roush, and they will not have it for me for another month. Even the big names have issues now and again.
 
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