Audi V10 in Porsche 917 from So. Africa
- Thread starter Bodhii
- Start date
Nice sound I agree, how come a Viper engine sounds so truck like compared to this Audi V10?
Unless it's a race car, put in any engine you feel you want (if you have the money, or the expertise), if a race car every ounce of power is important. Street cars will never be used to the ultimate performance available, sound plays a large role in the satisfaction in some people's opinion. Including mine. Would I rather have a V12? damn straight. Could I justify the time or the expense. No.
Unless it's a race car, put in any engine you feel you want (if you have the money, or the expertise), if a race car every ounce of power is important. Street cars will never be used to the ultimate performance available, sound plays a large role in the satisfaction in some people's opinion. Including mine. Would I rather have a V12? damn straight. Could I justify the time or the expense. No.
I dont know about this engine, but i have done this with an S2000 engine.
The problem is that the ECU in many (if not all) modern cars does more than just run the engine. Many of the other car functions also can be routed through the ECU, so, there is a lot of extra wires and connections that have to be terminated.
Furthermore, emission controls usually have to be gotten rid of. Most race cars do not run evap canisters or things like that. If you just hack these off, this will cause an error and the car will go into limp mode.
With patience and a good factory wiring diagram, its possible to use variable potentiometers to simulate various sensors and terminate them without throwing codes. What you end up with is an ECU with a chopped up wiring harness that looks like a mess; and can be hard to route since the length of the harnesses was never designed for the car its going into...
I'm sure if you are getting an exotic engine you might not have too much trouble getting a factory manual for it. But, that might be a factor. I dont think Lambo and Ferrari just give those away....
But it can be done....
I totally agree that the LS engines make the most sense. Especially for racing.
The Audi V10 engine weighs 568.8 lbs (258 kg) with 560 HP fully dressed.
Of course the difficult part seems to be the Audi's electronics. All I could find about the 917 in the video, and its engine electronics, was that they sent the car to MOTEC in So. Africa for a couple of months. MOTEC is never cheap.
It's hard to pass up the multiple advantages of the LS engines. And for my needs the LS is super.
The Audi V10 engine weighs 568.8 lbs (258 kg) with 560 HP fully dressed.
Of course the difficult part seems to be the Audi's electronics. All I could find about the 917 in the video, and its engine electronics, was that they sent the car to MOTEC in So. Africa for a couple of months. MOTEC is never cheap.
It's hard to pass up the multiple advantages of the LS engines. And for my needs the LS is super.
marc
Lifetime Supporter
I know, I have this Jenvey ITB system that has all these beautiful CF horns on the top and Lots of little dollars will have to go in to tune it right, I have seen all sorts of engines done, but when budgeting a kit don't forget FI tuning costs will need to be included and don't be stingy with the number.
Chris Kouba
Supporter
What a sound! I'm a fan.
It can be done, yes expensive.
I was involved in all the fab work on a friends M3.
No fly by wire but has duel vanos , he is a genius in the programming dept so not an issue for him ,but he has multitudes of maps driving and compensating for every scenario,multiple throttle body engines are difficult due to sensitivity.
I think the issue is finding someone capable.
Autronic is capable of running one of those engines, if the flyby wire is an issue put a cable on it.
That does sound s##t hot though.
Jim
I was involved in all the fab work on a friends M3.
No fly by wire but has duel vanos , he is a genius in the programming dept so not an issue for him ,but he has multitudes of maps driving and compensating for every scenario,multiple throttle body engines are difficult due to sensitivity.
I think the issue is finding someone capable.
Autronic is capable of running one of those engines, if the flyby wire is an issue put a cable on it.
That does sound s##t hot though.
Jim
Much of the difficulty comes from the expected signals that are transmitted and received via multiple CAN busses as well. I'm looking at the BMW V10 and honestly, I'm choosing a Motec because it will be cheaper than trying to make the stock MSS65 DME work and I'm very familiar with that unit. All the wiring diagrams are readily available, but with the more advanced technologies such as ionic current knock sensing, dipstick-less oil measurement, etc., it's hard to make anything of it without knowing exactly what form of serial data is being sent over them.
For me, it's as much about the research project of making the engine work as it is the build of the car. That's why I have the block and harness and still have no idea what it's going in yet.
Jim
They have swapped the S85 V10 into E30 chassis and use the harness and ecu to do it. If they can do it in that it would basically be the same for us. Sure there is some to figure out and get right, but it can be done.
As for the Motec, the Megasquirt Pro3 can do it also and should be way way cheaper.
They have swapped the S85 V10 into E30 chassis and use the harness and ecu to do it. If they can do it in that it would basically be the same for us. Sure there is some to figure out and get right, but it can be done.
As for the Motec, the Megasquirt Pro3 can do it also and should be way way cheaper.
True, but tuning it with modifications is difficult. Derailing the thread a bit, but my goal will be to build in two phases. The first being a stock engine with no modifications, installed in the car and tested. The second phase will build a second engine with stronger internals and FI.
Tuning would be much simpler since you're not scrounging for a DAMOS and A2L file to interpret the MSS65 maps in WinOLS. Not finding those readily available leads to a research project to understand them and for me, that's a unknown time commitment. At least going the Motec route, there's lots of prior work there and if I raise the white flag on time, I can hire one of those guys to finish it up.
I really went back and forth and have a access to more stock DMEs than I can shake a stick at, but having looked at the control methodology and torque equations the stock DME uses, I just don't think it will reach its full potential.
Obviously the MS3 has been done, but no one is sharing much on that either.
Tuning would be much simpler since you're not scrounging for a DAMOS and A2L file to interpret the MSS65 maps in WinOLS. Not finding those readily available leads to a research project to understand them and for me, that's a unknown time commitment. At least going the Motec route, there's lots of prior work there and if I raise the white flag on time, I can hire one of those guys to finish it up.
I really went back and forth and have a access to more stock DMEs than I can shake a stick at, but having looked at the control methodology and torque equations the stock DME uses, I just don't think it will reach its full potential.
Obviously the MS3 has been done, but no one is sharing much on that either.
