B.O. Supports Mosque near ground zero.

[Mark Worthington]

Well, Dear Leader chose to bring this issue up last Friday at a special Ramadan dinner celebration at the White House. This, by the way, from the first sitting US President to not attend the National Prayer Breakfast out of his concern that he might offend someone. Why would he bring this up in front of an audience of muslims if he didn't intend to demonstrate his support for the project? When he got called out on it, he was backpeddling so fast his soothing speech the next day was doppler shifted.

Worst. President. Evar.

 

[Ian K]

Well, Dear Leader chose to bring this issue up last Friday at a special Ramadan dinner celebration at the White House. This, by the way, from the first sitting US President to not attend the National Prayer Breakfast out of his concern that he might offend someone. Why would he bring this up in front of an audience of muslims if he didn't intend to demonstrate his support for the project? When he got called out on it, he was backpeddling so fast his soothing speech the next day was doppler shifted.

Um, Obama has attended both National Prayer Breakfasts since he took office. What he did not do is have a service in 2009 on the first Thursday of May which is the National Day of Prayer. This is a far different event, one signed into proclamation by Truman, which Reagan made a permanent event at the White House, and GW Bush turned into a political event confirming a conviction that religion was a core tenet of Republican politics.

Big difference.

Worst. President. Evar.

Hardly.

Ian

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

How far away do you think is okay? 25 blocks? 3 blocks? 500 miles? (I added the last one as a joke)

I am asking this question seriously since NYC blocks are quite large and very dense. 5 blocks there can feel like a different world.

Far enough away not to hear the call for prayer while mourning the loss of a friend or relative at ground zero. That should be easy enough to figure out.

 

[Jim Craik]

Worst. President. Evar.

Posted by Mark

You seem to have forgotten Bush2, Reagan, Nixon, Carter, Harding and Hoover.

 

[AdrianBurton]

Far enough away not to hear the call for prayer while mourning the loss of a friend or relative at ground zero. That should be easy enough to figure out.

So you are saying it could be AT G-0 if they turn the volume down?!?!?!

This is insane, take the truth and twist it to fit your agenda??? I dont get it

One min the expectation is that the President(s) should solve all of our problems then the next they are becoming "Big Brother".

I dont believe that BO should have commented either, but he did in as neutral and legalistically as could be done.

I personally believe that if a Mosque were built there it would not survive a month, if it were ever completed to begin with.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox was the only church that was heavily damaged on 9/11. They are not being allowed to rebuild. Existing vs non existing, WTF is wrong with this picture?

 

[Ian K]

St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox was the only church that was heavily damaged on 9/11. They are not being allowed to rebuild. Existing vs non existing, WTF is wrong with this picture?

Al, don't twist things. Read into WHY St. Nicholas has not been rebuilt - even from their own website:

St. Nicholas Church » Home

They originally were trying to build AT Ground Zero. Not two blocks away. There are still many obstacles facing everything that is supposed to be built or rebuilt at Ground Zero. This goes well beyond politics. They agreed to relocate slightly, but they need almost $75 million to rebuild as a result of fairly grandiose plans. They have yet to raise enough. They want the Port Authority to chip in $55 million, the Port Authority wants them to scale back their plans, move location slightly, and raise some more private funds.

Ian

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Al, don't twist things. Read into WHY St. Nicholas has not been rebuilt - even from their own website:

St. Nicholas Church » Home

They originally were trying to build AT Ground Zero. Not two blocks away. There are still many obstacles facing everything that is supposed to be built or rebuilt at Ground Zero. This goes well beyond politics. They agreed to relocate slightly, but they need almost $75 million to rebuild as a result of fairly grandiose plans. They have yet to raise enough. They want the Port Authority to chip in $55 million, the Port Authority wants them to scale back their plans, move location slightly, and raise some more private funds.

Ian

I wasn't trying to twist things, I was under the impression that permits were holding up the rebuild of the church. The original church was at ground zero.

 

[Jack]

I'm still wondering why it's okay to have a multi-denominational church in the Pentagon, but our kids are not allowed a prayer in school...

 

[Ian K]

I wasn't trying to twist things, I was under the impression that permits were holding up the rebuild of the church. The original church was at ground zero.

The permits are being held up, but not due to political reasons WRT religion. This is an issue of money, logistics and other reasons. Nobody is opposed the church being rebuilt on principle.

Ian

 

[Ian K]

I'm still wondering why it's okay to have a multi-denominational church in the Pentagon, but our kids are not allowed a prayer in school...

Because use of the multi-denominational church in the Pentagon is purely voluntary, and nobody is ostracized for not using it. Prayer in school is often not voluntary, and those who choose not to participate are often ostracized.

Or, as I often like to quip - "Prayer happens all of the time in school, usually just before taking an exam."

Ian

 

[Jack]

Good one Ian!

 

[Pat]

Because use of the multi-denominational church in the Pentagon is purely voluntary, and nobody is ostracized for not using it. Prayer in school is often not voluntary, and those who choose not to participate are often ostracized.

Or, as I often like to quip - "Prayer happens all of the time in school, usually just before taking an exam."

Ian

Actually the prohibitions are broader than that at least here in Florida. My daughter is the director of music and bands for a large high school. She has been directed that the "Winter Break Concert" (formerly the Christmas Concert) can only play "seasonal non-denominational” music. So "Silent Night", "O Come all ye Faithful", Little Town of Bethlehem" are all prohibited. "Jingle Bells", after much discussion, was permitted.
It seems the playing of "Oh Holy Night" constitutes establishing a religion in some quarters.

 

[Ian K]

Actually the prohibitions are broader than that at least here in Florida. My daughter is the director of music and bands for a large high school. She has been directed that the "Winter Break Concert" (formerly the Christmas Concert) can only play "seasonal non-denominational” music. So "Silent Night", "O Come all ye Faithful", Little Town of Bethlehem" are all prohibited. "Jingle Bells", after much discussion, was permitted.
It seems the playing of "Oh Holy Night" constitutes establishing a religion in some quarters.

See, and I have no problem with Christmas celebrations (blame Hallmark for helping make Christmas less about Jesus Christ and more about the fat man in the suit). My wife taught second grade in a school where they couldn't celebrate Halloween, but did a Harvest Festival instead. Of course, those who know where Halloween comes from would know how ironic that is.

Regardless, I am fairly certain that the putting the kibbosh on Christmas celebrations is an extension of the school prayer issue. Again, having multi-denominational church in the Pentagon is not the same as pushing religion out into people's faces. One must choose to go into the church and pray, but prayer in school and school concerts are basically on public display, hence the restriction. I agree with school prayer not being allowed (I actually went to a school where the Pledge of Allegiance was mandatory, and if you did not stand with your hand over your heart and recite it verbatim - no skipping over "Under God" - you were put in detention), but I disagree with banning Christmas concerts.

Ian

 

[Jack Houpe]

November the people will speak, I can't wait to hear what what you Obama fans have to say on this forum after the elections. B.O. is the worst President in history of the USA in my opinion and many others feel the same way. NOT to say that Republicans have a better candidate but anything is better than what we have now. I guess you think Pelosi is the best thing since ice cream.

 

[Jack]

Thought Pelosi's face was made of ice cream...frozen or thawed..

 

[Jim Craik]

November the people will speak, I can't wait to hear what what you Obama fans have to say on this forum after the elections.

Posted by Jack Houpe.

The people will speak, just like they did last November the the November before that. Jack, you remember that election, you know the one where the Republicans had done such a wonderful job that THE PEOPLE SPOKE and they the lost the House, Senate and White house.


They ruined the economy, lied and misslead us into two usless wars, killing many times the number of Americans who died in 9-11 and Pearl Harbor combined, tourchered hundreds of people ruined fourign relations for years to come, deminished our standing in the world, and spent more and grew government more than anyone in history.

Not to mention creating thousands and thousands of new revenge seakers!


Tell us Jack, how is having them back a good thing?

 

[40 Bud]

Most people that I have known, that were as unhappy with there country as Jim seems to be, immigrated to some place that they could be happy!

 

[Jim Craik]

Bud, give is a few examples of "most of the people I have known" who immagrated some where else because they were unhappy with our country.

I'm not unhappy with my country, I love my country, what I hate is what the concervatives have done to it. Judging by the last few elections, most of America agrees with me.

You remind me of the conservative matra of the 60's "America love it or leave it". That was a crock of shit then and it is a crock of shit now.

The only people I hear with your attitude are the tea party people, they loose an election and want to revolt, sessed from the union, overthrow the elected govenrment, use "second amendment solutions"!!

That is about as un-American as you can get, in a Democracy some times you win, sometimes you loose, and as you know so well, sometimes when you win you loose!

 

[Frank3]

The thing is the whole lot of them are just as bad . Doesn't matter if they are left or right . To fetter Americans , and grow government seems to be their only interest , other than self gain that is .

The people are the only answer , but they won't stop asking the government to do more when the people should be doing more for themselves . And if November is just about another change in leaders and not public involvement , then we'er doomed to continue with this conversation . Mosque and all !