Bicycle riders.

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
On top of all that, the city is spending a T-O-N of money creating "bike lanes" out of what USED TO BE parking spaces!!! Izzunt that great? Removing revenue generating, metered parking places so cyclists can ride in a dedicated lane for free.

If you've guessed this town is run by libs you're right on.

Good for your city, Larry! That shows me that they value peoples' lives more than the paltry parking fees they get from those metered places. What value would you place on a life, Larry, and do you think those parking fees would pay for a lost life?

You know, it's been my experience that those who are fortunate enough to engage in costly pursuits, such as "supercars" like the Ford GT/GT40 and the higher end bicycles, do tend to be more conservative in general...that makes them a rather "skewed" piece of the cultural pie, so to speak. One of the things I like about bicycling is that you don't really have to have a 6 or 7 figure income to enjoy the activity...that's a good thing in my eyes, there's a wide variety of people involved and so there is interest for me in that diversity. I actually lost interest in kayaking, not because of the cost because I had the income to enjoy the trips (particularly out of state to places like the Salmon River in upper Idaho), but because it was so costly that a lot of people I would have enjoyed hanging out with could not afford the equipment, much less the travel to reach interesting whitewater (you'd be lucky to find anything that exceeds Class II whitewater here in TX).

IMHO, a little patience and understanding is in order towards those who, for a multitude of reasons, choose a bicycle for transportation and exercise. There are rude and inconsiderate individuals in any subgroup in our society, but I truly believe that the vast majority are much more socially acceptable. It only takes one bad apple to ruin the whole barrel...happens all the time.

Cheers!

Doug
 
My personal practice (flame suit on) is to come to a yellow or red light and slow to a crawl, look for traffic, and IF there is none within a conservatively reasonable distance from the intersection, I take off, otherwise I wait. Doing so shows observing drivers that the cyclist is at the very least being practical about traffic and those he's sharing the road with. I slow for stop signs if there is no traffic, and wait my turn if there is.

I have two goals in my ride. 1) Don't impede traffic, or do it in the least intrusive way possible, 2) Give respect to drivers on the road who have no other option but to fully obey the traffic lights, but remain practical about it. A rider going through a red light with no impacting traffic does have its advantages for the cars behind him. It's all about being considerate of the other guy.

Terry,

Very good post. I too subscribe to the same principles of being low impact. It is often to the benefit of everyone involved if I slow/stop gauge the situation at the intersection and if I "run" the light and get out of everyone's way, then so be it. I get my share of folks who honk or yell, but for the most part folks tend to make eye contact, then wave me through.

I swear, I still don't get the angst over cyclists though. And, so far, no-one has made an intelligent post explaining their frustrations except the "because they do" rationale.

I do however understand the frustration caused by inconsiderate cyclists, motorists, joggers, etc; but that's the world we live in now isn't it?

Doug
 

marc

Lifetime Supporter
As a cyclist I hate other cyclist with their radios in their ears not paying attention to the surroundings, As a motorist I hate other drivers for f'ing with their phones and not paying attention. I'm just a Hater, really because I may not want to live forever but I don't want to be a bloody stain on the road.
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
I understand Larry's angst, but the "free" street I ride on was paid as much out of my taxes as it was for any other tax payer in the city or state (actually, statically, more so by my income group). These "green" enhancements draw folks to these locations, bringing some degree of economic benefit to the locals that built it. Little rock recently built a large trail system on both sides of the Arkansas river, which garnered so much support, three years later the city built two dedicated foot/cycle bridges, and converted a dilapidated railroad bridge into a third pedestrian bridge. The parking lots for all access points to this wonderful social draw has folks parking in the grass due to all the traffic. It actually has driven the cyclist out onto the roads because of the huge popularity and congestion. This draw is one piece of the larger puzzle of how LR has been able to avoid the inner city dump that we were headed toward until the city decided to do something that would draw people back into town...and it's worked out very well.
 

Dimi Terleckyj

Lifetime Supporter
Hi all

Just as an example of the reason bikers get such a bad name.

I was taking my 2 boys fishing one Sunday morning to a place called Akuna Bay in Sydney.
The road down to the boat ramp is about 10Km's and fairly steep and windy.

As we came around a corner there was a middle aged gent in lycra going downhill doing snaking S turns from one side of the road to the other across both lanes.
As we came up behind him he just kept on doing what he was doing .
I just followed for a minute or two and then gave him a toot on the horn to let him know I was there and I wanted to pass plus the fact that we were towing a boat I needed to make sure he knew we were there.

He then moved over and we passed him only to have him then come up beside us on the wrong side of the road and begin a tirade of abuse that lasted all the rest of the way to the boat ramp and only stopped when I got out of the car and threatened to drown him right there and use his useless body for fish bait.

Both my two boys (11 and 13 ) could not believe what was happening for no reason.

And then these bikers wonder why car drivers get upset.

By the way apart from my cars I also ride a pushbike as well as a Honda CB750 four so am well aware of the need to be careful.

Dimi
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
I guess it's like everything else, single events or circumstances paint a picture of the larger group (e.g. all loud cars are perceived as being driven more aggressively because of a few isolated examples).
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
... the "free" street I ride on was paid as much out of my taxes as it was for any other tax payer in the city or state...

That 'strawman' is the 1st line of defense most bike riders throw out...and it doesn't pass the smell test. E.g: Just because one pays taxes/fees on ONE of the 6 'motor vehicles' he may own does not cover the taxes on the other FIVE. 'Hafta pay the aforesaid on each one of them in order to take 'em on the road. Cyclists pay no insurance, pay no vehicle taxes of any kind, pay no "driver's license" fees, etc., etc., etc. Therefore, they DO in fact "ride for free".[/QUOTE]
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Good for your city, Larry! That shows me that they value peoples' lives more than the paltry parking fees they get from those metered places. What value would you place on a life, Larry, and do you think those parking fees would pay for a lost life?

A-N-O-T-H-E-R strawman 'rebuttal'. :sad:
 
I am known by my work colleagues as a MAMIL (Middle Aged Man in Lycra) and have biked regularly to work, for over 30 years and in Jan this year I took the decision not to ride the 10 miles home from work after night shifts, as riding to work at 6am is OK riding home from work at 7am is just getting too dangerous. I broke my new rule this week……that was a big mistake and one I will not be repeating.

For those 30 years I have stopped at red lights, very rarely ridden other than solo and never more than 2 abreast, and always tried to follow the Highway Code to the best of my ability. I never shout, swear or complain at driver’s antics, life is too short, despite being knocked of twice by cars that had failed to see me, one failed to stop despite my having removed his wing mirror with my elbow. I wish I had a helmet camera, I would like to think you would be shocked at the driving of many.

So what effect has this had on drivers?

Well none really, I still get sworn at by those who despite my riding closer to the curb than any car, they think I still need to be hitting the drains in the gutter, I can tell you this is not an option at 20mph or above. This probably has more to do with the fact that to overtake me they have crossed the double white lines and are being blasted by the oncoming traffic for being on the wrong side of the road on a blind corner, than my riding but hay ho I’ll take the blame if it makes them feel better. I still get things thrown at me from car windows, and I always thought it was washer water now I am wondering. Still get cars pulling left in stationary or very slow moving traffic to deliberately stop me SLOWLY going up the inside of them, despite or because of others moving right to let me pass.

I actually think this is more to do with the intolerant way society is moving, I am more important than you, my time is more important than yours , how dare you hold me up etc etc. The reason I say this is because I have noticed similar situations whilst driving my pre-war car which is susceptible to fuel vaporization, especially with modern fuel.

Until a few years ago my having to wait on the side of the road for things to cool down, was greeted with a friendly wave or the offer of help, these days it is more likely to be met with swearing and being told I am a rich person whose father was a bachelor.

As for all cyclists not letting any niggling traffic law get in the way, whilst two wrongs don’t make a right, in the UK at least motorists are far from immune on this point. If you don’t believe me try a little experiment for me. The next time you are out driving stick rigidly to the indicated speed limit whatever it is. I will guarantee that if you are in the UK and I suspect in some other countries although perhaps not France, you will be by many, at the least overtaken at the worst abused, sworn at and hassled even if you are obeying the speed limit in a built up residential area. I know this as my wife does stick to the speed limits and the abuse / hassle she gets from impatient drivers behind her has to be seen to be believed.

I would like to confess I have been known to break speed limits in my car on a number oh ok a lot of occasions but never on my bicycle, despite numerous attempts to do so. I don’t count the 20mph ones they are too easy ;)
 
That 'strawman' is the 1st line of defense most bike riders throw out...and it doesn't pass the smell test. E.g: Just because one pays taxes/fees on ONE of the 6 'motor vehicles' he may own does not cover the taxes on the other FIVE. 'Hafta pay the aforesaid on each one of them in order to take 'em on the road. Cyclists pay no insurance, pay no vehicle taxes of any kind, pay no "driver's license" fees, etc., etc., etc. Therefore, they DO in fact "ride for free".
[/QUOTE]

Larry,

Road tax in the UK does not pay for the roads. Many cyclists in the UK do pay insurance through various schemes specific bike schemes like cycleguard, and through some house insurance policies which cover them for third party and public liability.

Many cars in the UK, and the number is growing now pay no or reduced road tax due to their low emissions.

From the BBC news website


Many a cycle commuter in the UK has confronted a dangerous driver, only to be told they have no right on the road because they don't pay "road tax".

But road tax was abolished in 1937 and replaced by Vehicle Excise Duty.

This is a tax on cars, not roads, and it goes straight into the general Treasury fund. Many government agencies have now started calling VED "car tax" but it might be classified as a pollution tax, since it's now based on the size of engine and emissions. Ultra-low emissions vehicles are exempted.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Nick, you are correct about the speed limit and impatient drivers. I stick to the speed limit not because of any ethical or moral reason but because both my Gt40 and my daily driver are cop magnets and I often get pulled over for a "random breath test sir".
I am amazed at the number of drivers who don't give a shit about the speed limit and who regularly pass me doing 20 k over the limit. The ones that really annoy me are those who do 80 in a 60 zone and when they get to a 110 zone continue to do 80. I guess they just have cruise control set and don't give a toss.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Larry,

Road tax in the UK does not pay for the roads. Many cyclists in the UK do pay insurance through various schemes specific bike schemes like cycleguard, and through some house insurance policies which cover them for third party and public liability.

Many cars in the UK, and the number is growing now pay no or reduced road tax due to their low emissions.

From the BBC news website


Many a cycle commuter in the UK has confronted a dangerous driver, only to be told they have no right on the road because they don't pay "road tax".

But road tax was abolished in 1937 and replaced by Vehicle Excise Duty.

This is a tax on cars, not roads, and it goes straight into the general Treasury fund. Many government agencies have now started calling VED "car tax" but it might be classified as a pollution tax, since it's now based on the size of engine and emissions. Ultra-low emissions vehicles are exempted.[/QUOTE]


Obviously I was referencing the way things work over here, Nick. Doubtless things will differ elsewhere.
 
This might explain it (BTW from a BBC article)

"It’s not simply because they are annoying, argues Tom Stafford, it’s because they trigger a deep-seated rage within us by breaking the moral order of the road."

BBC - Future - The psychology of why cyclists enrage car drivers

My take away is that motorists believe cyclists are getting away with something the motorist cannot participate in without subjecting themselves to the risk of receiving citation$.

In short - selfishness and jealousy.

Doug
 

Keith

Moderator
I am known by my work colleagues as a MAMIL (Middle Aged Man in Lycra) and have biked regularly to work, for over 30 years and in Jan this year I took the decision not to ride the 10 miles home from work after night shifts, as riding to work at 6am is OK riding home from work at 7am is just getting too dangerous. I broke my new rule this week……that was a big mistake and one I will not be repeating.

For those 30 years I have stopped at red lights, very rarely ridden other than solo and never more than 2 abreast, and always tried to follow the Highway Code to the best of my ability. I never shout, swear or complain at driver’s antics, life is too short, despite being knocked of twice by cars that had failed to see me, one failed to stop despite my having removed his wing mirror with my elbow. I wish I had a helmet camera, I would like to think you would be shocked at the driving of many.

So what effect has this had on drivers?

Well none really, I still get sworn at by those who despite my riding closer to the curb than any car, they think I still need to be hitting the drains in the gutter, I can tell you this is not an option at 20mph or above. This probably has more to do with the fact that to overtake me they have crossed the double white lines and are being blasted by the oncoming traffic for being on the wrong side of the road on a blind corner, than my riding but hay ho I’ll take the blame if it makes them feel better. I still get things thrown at me from car windows, and I always thought it was washer water now I am wondering. Still get cars pulling left in stationary or very slow moving traffic to deliberately stop me SLOWLY going up the inside of them, despite or because of others moving right to let me pass.

I actually think this is more to do with the intolerant way society is moving, I am more important than you, my time is more important than yours , how dare you hold me up etc etc. The reason I say this is because I have noticed similar situations whilst driving my pre-war car which is susceptible to fuel vaporization, especially with modern fuel.

Until a few years ago my having to wait on the side of the road for things to cool down, was greeted with a friendly wave or the offer of help, these days it is more likely to be met with swearing and being told I am a rich person whose father was a bachelor.

As for all cyclists not letting any niggling traffic law get in the way, whilst two wrongs don’t make a right, in the UK at least motorists are far from immune on this point. If you don’t believe me try a little experiment for me. The next time you are out driving stick rigidly to the indicated speed limit whatever it is. I will guarantee that if you are in the UK and I suspect in some other countries although perhaps not France, you will be by many, at the least overtaken at the worst abused, sworn at and hassled even if you are obeying the speed limit in a built up residential area. I know this as my wife does stick to the speed limits and the abuse / hassle she gets from impatient drivers behind her has to be seen to be believed.

I would like to confess I have been known to break speed limits in my car on a number oh ok a lot of occasions but never on my bicycle, despite numerous attempts to do so. I don’t count the 20mph ones they are too easy ;)

Dear Lord Nick! Where in the world do you live? Beirut?

We are much more tolerant down here in the Deep South.. seriously..
 
That's a load of bollocks you wanker...:furious:

I take it from the tone of your response you have managed to drive that smart car up North, did tolerant Southerner David Morton fill your washer bottle? :)

P.S. I'm actually from the South West, Hawkchurch near Axminster, we can show you what laid back is, then down there you go round every corner expecting a horse, tractor, pedestrian, sheep, cow, cyclist or duck to be in the middle of the road, which quite often is only 1 car wide in any case.
 
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