Comments in Pic. Fel Pro used to have a grey graphite gasket with no sealant beads that worked fine, not sure its still in their product line ( probably too good- did not fail-sell enough ). The Cometic - MLS stuff seems to be OK, but on the TVR they had nothing suitable to work with the AFR heads at the time ( Coolant hole/gaskets not lining up & beads of gasket overlapping these ). Actually some of the genuine Ford OE stuff looks OK- aren't you still a Ford man!
Coolant Leak
- Thread starter brettmcc
- Start date
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
I've always had great luck with Felpro, but I believe they are somewhat generalized in design, and that the right gasket (I believe there are several versions for the SBF that have small changes here and there) with the correct coolant holes can be found. I've always been able to find one that worked well. For this particular issue with the leaks, I think the surface of the deck (and perhaps any sliding scratches on the head are the problem.
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
So there is a lot of deck clearance going on
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2.52 mm
So I take it is ok to remove about 2mm when it gets decked?
Jac, yes I am a Ford man. Worked for them for 16 years, but I do IT stuff. Whilst I have played around with cars and engines my whole life, I've never done the American stuff and this was my first attempt. Also, the company doesn't have support for the US stuff over here and you have to rely on ether it being shipped or companies over here.
2.52 mm
So I take it is ok to remove about 2mm when it gets decked?
Jac, yes I am a Ford man. Worked for them for 16 years, but I do IT stuff. Whilst I have played around with cars and engines my whole life, I've never done the American stuff and this was my first attempt. Also, the company doesn't have support for the US stuff over here and you have to rely on ether it being shipped or companies over here.
These are the gaskets that I typically use with alloy heads in SBF builds and they seem to work quite well::
Fel-Pro Performance Head Gaskets 10111 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
FelPro 1011-1
I don't see the problem with the surface of the deck. Yes, they are coarse from Ford, but bazillions of them are in cars and trucks around the world and function flawlessly.
If you deck that block 2mm, be prepared for possible misalignment of your intake manifold and you may well end up cutting that as well in order to get the proper alignment and sealing.
Fel-Pro Performance Head Gaskets 10111 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
FelPro 1011-1
I don't see the problem with the surface of the deck. Yes, they are coarse from Ford, but bazillions of them are in cars and trucks around the world and function flawlessly.
If you deck that block 2mm, be prepared for possible misalignment of your intake manifold and you may well end up cutting that as well in order to get the proper alignment and sealing.
Also - I've long been an absolute HATER of the 7/16" headbolts that Ford engineers thought to be sufficient for the little Windsor.. But I am skeptical on changing over to 1/2" in all cases as many blocks don't have sufficient "beef" in the headbolt area of the decks to take the drilling and tapping for the larger bolts. ARP studs and the adapter washers for the heads have been a pretty good compromise and I've used them since their inception without drama..
I will say that I don't know about your particular block and yield to those that do.
I will say that I don't know about your particular block and yield to those that do.
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Randy, I wasn't suggesting 2mm. I was asking as Munroe's book suggests a lot less deck clearance than I am seeing, that's all. Thanks for the feedback, it all helps.
The gaskets I used are the same as you suggested, so I am baffled. I think I am going to have to resort to having a light skim of the block face (ok not 2mm
) and probably new head gaskets. I've asked Jac what he thinks to with the Cometic MLS 5514-040 or the Mr Gasket MLS 3166G; more expensive than the Fel-Pro, but if they fix it it is a price worth paying.
I am also a bit nervous of doing the 1/2 conversion just in case I mess it up...
To be honest after all this time, I nearly sold the car this week, this has just nearly taken me over the edge with the project; normally more resilient but I have a lot going on in work at the moment that's not too pleasant :uneasy:
Brett
The gaskets I used are the same as you suggested, so I am baffled. I think I am going to have to resort to having a light skim of the block face (ok not 2mm
) and probably new head gaskets. I've asked Jac what he thinks to with the Cometic MLS 5514-040 or the Mr Gasket MLS 3166G; more expensive than the Fel-Pro, but if they fix it it is a price worth paying.I am also a bit nervous of doing the 1/2 conversion just in case I mess it up...
To be honest after all this time, I nearly sold the car this week, this has just nearly taken me over the edge with the project; normally more resilient but I have a lot going on in work at the moment that's not too pleasant :uneasy:
Brett
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
Hang in there Brett. Once this baby resides in the garage, finished and ready to show off, you'll be glad you saw it through.
Brett, are you sure about that 2.52mm @ TDC on the cyl measured-- that's ~0.100". something up the whack here. Have you fitted a 289 crank with 302 rods to get that- stack height of that would be 8.125 ( 1.435+5.090+1.6 ) whereas 302 crank( 1.500+5.090+1.600 = 8.190. Your block should be 8.210" + .Measure the distance down from deck on piston at other end of that bank then subtract that 2.52mm- that should give you 76.2mm (3.00") for the 302 crank or 72.89mm (2.87") for the 289.
Costs- while you can remove that ~2mm+ from the block it will require multiple cuts and may require manifold work to match up, plus pushrods.
Think your aware Randy has suggested the head gaskets you already have tried.
Check the block crank scenario out first-there are more options available depending on what you have actually got there.
Costs- while you can remove that ~2mm+ from the block it will require multiple cuts and may require manifold work to match up, plus pushrods.
Think your aware Randy has suggested the head gaskets you already have tried.
Check the block crank scenario out first-there are more options available depending on what you have actually got there.
Brett,
As Terry says hang on in there, I felt the same last week with my reverse gear selection problems which I still haven't fixed, and I suspect that most people building their own car has felt this at some point.
The finish line is in site you may be running down that back straight a little slower than you would like but you will cross the finish line. Too far into the race to give up now.
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Jac, will measure tonight.
All I know is that I bought a 302 engine years ago (like 10+) and then took it apart and put in new pistons and rods.
Pistons are Speed Pro L2482F30
Rods were Eagle I beams 302 rods
Never checked the crank that came with it apart from the journals for the bearings.
Engine is ready to come out, just need a crane (and my engine stand back this weekend)
All I know is that I bought a 302 engine years ago (like 10+) and then took it apart and put in new pistons and rods.
Pistons are Speed Pro L2482F30
Rods were Eagle I beams 302 rods
Never checked the crank that came with it apart from the journals for the bearings.
Engine is ready to come out, just need a crane (and my engine stand back this weekend)
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
I measured #1 cylinder last night roughly and it is close to 76; this was very rough and just a guide. I need to spend more time and check across all the cylinders. Hopefully, I'll be able to take out this weekend and get onto a stand so it will be easier to do.
Brett
Brett
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
If anyone asks how I got the piston selection etc. I bought all the stuff a LONG time ago when I was originally starting and based it on the attached PDF; long before I started to ask stoopid questions on the forum
Was that 76mm before or after subtracting that original 2.52mm of deck clearance?... 76 - 2.52 = 73.48 =2.892" which would be 289 crank, 302 rod & 1.6" comp height.
Hi Brett, nobody has yet suggested that you must check your CR before machining off lumps of the block, I suggest 10.5 to 1, others might disagree, Frank
His Patriot Freedom heads have 60cc chambers on a 302 + 0.030" bore that is 627cc + 60cc + ~10cc clearance & pockets that gives 9.95/1 comp ratio, the 'REAL' problem that has emerged over everything else in trying to diagnose the coolant leak is that Bretts measurements put the piston 2.52mm ( 0.100") down the bore at TDC which to me suggests that he has a 289 crank rather than a 302 item. Its quite common to have to remove around 0.020"/0.030" of the block surface to get close to zero deck, but not three times that amount. As it stands with that 0.100" piston to deck clearance gives it 7.6/1 comp on a 302, even less on a 289..
Hi Brett,
Noticed your heads have 2.02 inlets. Not sure what spec your pistons are ref the vavle cuts but I took the precaution of "Claying" my piston top (although it was with blue tac" prior to completing the build to ensure I had clearance. My Cam is essentially "Performer" spec so not very aggressive.
Once I had sliced the sample with a razor in various spots around the arc it was clear I was fine.
I kept my Stock pistons so wanted to be sure it all Rotated fine after my build.
See you Saturday.
Nick.
:thumbsup:
Noticed your heads have 2.02 inlets. Not sure what spec your pistons are ref the vavle cuts but I took the precaution of "Claying" my piston top (although it was with blue tac" prior to completing the build to ensure I had clearance. My Cam is essentially "Performer" spec so not very aggressive.
Once I had sliced the sample with a razor in various spots around the arc it was clear I was fine.
I kept my Stock pistons so wanted to be sure it all Rotated fine after my build.
See you Saturday.
Nick.
:thumbsup:
Attachments
As in post #43 Keith? don't think so. But one question Nick, while checking that inlet valve clearance did you allow for spring back of the hydraulic lifter ..eg use a solid lifter with valve lash set to zero while you ran it thru two complete revolutions for checking purposes. Incidently the head gasket in Nicks Pic is the type I prefer of the Fel Pro range of gaskets.
Pic with 2m mark on crank, yours being an early version if 289 will appear like its punched into the crank web and 1m for 289/2m for 302.. As above it looks very much like you have a 289 crank, simplest and probably cheapest option will be a 302 crank and balance- should be relatively straightforward if you have kept balance info as you will be using current rods & pistons. and then get block squared & decked to suit, probably only 0.010" or so.
Pic with 2m mark on crank, yours being an early version if 289 will appear like its punched into the crank web and 1m for 289/2m for 302.. As above it looks very much like you have a 289 crank, simplest and probably cheapest option will be a 302 crank and balance- should be relatively straightforward if you have kept balance info as you will be using current rods & pistons. and then get block squared & decked to suit, probably only 0.010" or so.
Attachments
Last edited:
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
I'm going to take the sump off tomorrow night and see if I can see the casting number on the crank.
76mm was total measurement deck to piston
76mm was total measurement deck to piston
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