Geez,
Even with my eyes and a slight buzz I don't see that. I have seen Z cars turned into Daytona "wannabees" and more commonly Fazzaz 250 GTOs, but I don't think Herr Goertz had the Daytona in his sights when he laid down the "Fairlady".....
Ford Motor Company v. Safir GT40 Spares, Ltd
- Thread starter Big-Foot
- Start date
Geez,
Even with my eyes and a slight buzz I don't see that. I have seen Z cars turned into Daytona "wannabees" and more commonly Fazzaz 250 GTOs, but I don't think Herr Goertz had the Daytona in his sights when he laid down the "Fairlady".....
Indeed, the Daytona was the primary inspiration for the 240Z. It wasn't a literal translation, but rather a small-scale interpretation of the long-hood, short deck two-seater GT car. Although there were numerous different takes on this general idea (everything from the Mustang fastback to the E-type Jaguar to various earlier Ferraris), the overall shape and proportions of the 240Z and Daytona are the most similar, although of course the 240Z is substantially smaller and cheaper.
IMHO - I feel it is un-fair for replica GT40 manufacturers not to be able to call it what it resembles as long as they use replica before the GT40 name. "It's descriptive" Every company that builds these cool cars builds there own reputation in them (Good or Bad). Maybe Continuation Series GT40 for Safir/Superformance would more accurate and fair to the originals as well as the replica manufacturers? I also feel the GT40 name should be left for the originals and them only. I say call it what it is and don't cloud the GT40 history.
I was wondering how far this "GT40" trademark might extend....let's assume Safir manages to prevail in the trademark suit, does that mean our supply of graphics (such as sill stripes) that will say "GT40" will be subject to royalties to Safir, also?
Just how far reaching do you suspect this might extend?
Doug
Just how far reaching do you suspect this might extend?
Doug
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I can't see GT40 being a trade mark. Now Ford on the other hand is another story. The Grand Touring (GT) is used in a lot of cars. You guys will have to raise the ride hight by half an inch and add a small .5 after it. I suppose the font will be registered too.
Dave
Dave
Gents, to be clear, if Safir is successful in their trademark case then it's not a matter of removing some sill stripes or calling your car a "GT40 Replica" - quite the contrary, anyone other than Safir will be prevented from producing anything that looks like, resembles, remindes, mentiones, or even suggests the GT40 name or shape, in whole or in part. As a GT40 replica manufacturer you'd be done, finished, kaput, finito. So, don't underestimate Bob/Safir and be cajoled into thinking he's just a friendly guy that wouldn't do anything to negatively impact other manufacturers. Safir's attempt to seize the trademark is about money, and nothing else, even if it is shrouded in a veneer of Bob's supposed friendliness and good ole boy tell-it-like-it-is.
The only question that would remain is whether existing cars already produced and on the road when/if such trademark protection is granted would be affected. I, for one (a GT40 replica owner), would be disadvantaged financially and otherwise.
The only question that would remain is whether existing cars already produced and on the road when/if such trademark protection is granted would be affected. I, for one (a GT40 replica owner), would be disadvantaged financially and otherwise.
You guys are missing the whole point here. This thread is about the shape. There is no litigation about the name GT40. There is no discussion there. Safir owns the registered trademark "GT40" They can stop anyone from using it, or at least try, that they want. To my knowledge they haven't gone after anyone over it yet other than Ford. They were successful in stopping Ford from using the name GT40 to represent their new car in 2005. Now Safir is trying to trademark the shape of the car. Ford is opposing it. They had the chance to oppose Safirs registering the trademark GT40 when they did years ago and they didn't. I think Bob Wood has been clear here. Why are you guys carrying on and on? I'm just grateful Bob came out and flat said he did not intend to interfere with the Replica constructors over the shape if they are awarded it. Frankly anyone using the name GT40 to represent their car without permission from the Trademark holder is taking a chance. I'm sure Bob is fully aware of all the abuse of the name GT40 out there. With Bobs statement about his plans to not interfere with the replica constructors over the shape I now realize the issue over the shape is about Ford. That's why Ford is opposing it.
Chris
Chris
Everyone has an opinion. I think Cliff nailed it. Money, money, money- thats what it is all about. I believe anyone trying to convince us of anything else is just a sweet talking slesman! Ford , J.W. Engineering, Safir (THE ORIGINAL) have all alowed the (and in some cases blessed) copying of the GT40 shape and have therefore placed it in the public domain. These companies lack of defense of the copying that has taken place should negate the ability of a johnny come lately (the current Safir) to now, after the fact come along and stick it to the people who have already invested heavily into developing businesses wrapped around the GT40 and its mystique. All of this is just my own logic and is not necessarily legally correct. My view is that I hope Safir gets their butt handed to them and that life goes own just as it has been,but don't hold your breath. Personnaly if anyone were to decide that my replica GT40 would have to go because of an undefended trademark,copyright etc. said so, they had better first check out my 2nd ammendment rights!
Guys -
Bob has clearly stated his intentions. Let's not try and read more into it than that..
As far as Replica mfgrs are concerned - I believe that Chris is the only one in this thread that truly has a dog in the fight.
Insinuations and accusations by the others seem to be deliberate attempts to draw the ire of the litigants in this process - and - may well goad them into actions they otherwise may not have taken..
I would leave well enough alone at this point..
Ron - Closing this thread may be the correct option - obviously your choice.
Bob has clearly stated his intentions. Let's not try and read more into it than that..
As far as Replica mfgrs are concerned - I believe that Chris is the only one in this thread that truly has a dog in the fight.
Insinuations and accusations by the others seem to be deliberate attempts to draw the ire of the litigants in this process - and - may well goad them into actions they otherwise may not have taken..
I would leave well enough alone at this point..
Ron - Closing this thread may be the correct option - obviously your choice.
Mike, the E-Type Jag predates the Daytona my a couple of years. Mr. "K" (Yutaka
Katayama), the designer of the Z car, specifically attributes the E-Type as the main
inspiration.
Ian
Any of you guys who make your living making these bodies, kits, or could possibly be harmed if this TM is granted you need to get representation, and get involved RIGHT NOW! If cost is a concern you should all get together and hire a reputable trademark attorney jointly. But just get involved anyway you can! Go to: United States Patent and Trademark Office Home Page and learn what some basics about trademarks.
There are extremely strong arguments that this shape is in the public domain, but you have to get involved to make the arguments and protect your right to manufacture the shape.
Don't blindly believe what this guy says his intent is. I can't tell you how many times I've heard promises like that. Go and ask him to sign a contract in writing for say $1.00 that he will not charge you a license fee or interefere with your business if he is granted the TM. Think he'll sign? Yeah Right! Keep in mind what he says here on this forum is not binding on him in anyway. He could simply be trying to keep you from becoming involved and opposing his application since the fewer people that oppose it, the better his chances of success. Ask yourself if his intent is not to interfere with replicas, then what is it? To go after Ford for royalties on the new GT? Even if that were the case he can't just focus on Ford. To keep a trademark he MUST enforce it across the board. He can't just pick and choose who he wants to enforce it against.
There are extremely strong arguments that this shape is in the public domain, but you have to get involved to make the arguments and protect your right to manufacture the shape.
Don't blindly believe what this guy says his intent is. I can't tell you how many times I've heard promises like that. Go and ask him to sign a contract in writing for say $1.00 that he will not charge you a license fee or interefere with your business if he is granted the TM. Think he'll sign? Yeah Right! Keep in mind what he says here on this forum is not binding on him in anyway. He could simply be trying to keep you from becoming involved and opposing his application since the fewer people that oppose it, the better his chances of success. Ask yourself if his intent is not to interfere with replicas, then what is it? To go after Ford for royalties on the new GT? Even if that were the case he can't just focus on Ford. To keep a trademark he MUST enforce it across the board. He can't just pick and choose who he wants to enforce it against.
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
Then of course you have the Daytona kit for the Datsun Z car:
or my rendering (though my intention was to NOT pass off my work as a Coupe replica but to simply create a car body based on sound sports-car design attributes):
or my rendering (though my intention was to NOT pass off my work as a Coupe replica but to simply create a car body based on sound sports-car design attributes):
I agree with Bob.
I meant to say Randy...
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
I have done business with Safir GT40 for years. They did quite a bit of work on my car, which was begun by David Brown in NZ, and further work done by Safir. They also built the body for my car, as well as a huge amount of the suspension and other parts which they then assembled for me. The quality of their work is quite good, they are decent guys. They have also spent quite a bit of their own money to acquire the rights to call their cars GT40s and license the serial numbers. No one else did this; others simply began building cars and called them whatever they wished.
The Safir principals have been quite unfairly vilified in print and on Web forums by people who ought to have known better. The deal that they requested from Ford was (contrary to innuendo) quite reasonable. Frankly, after seeing how these gentlemen were treated by Ford, it would be a cold day in hell before I bought a Ford product new.
Their support of my efforts to have a GT40 has been prolonged and enthusiastic. They have done everything they promised to do on my car, some of which involved correcting the mistakes of others. Most of all, unlike many other members of the GT40 community, they made a substantial personal investment in the future of these cars and the continuity of the legitimacy of these cars. Please grant them the respect they have earned.
The Safir principals have been quite unfairly vilified in print and on Web forums by people who ought to have known better. The deal that they requested from Ford was (contrary to innuendo) quite reasonable. Frankly, after seeing how these gentlemen were treated by Ford, it would be a cold day in hell before I bought a Ford product new.
Their support of my efforts to have a GT40 has been prolonged and enthusiastic. They have done everything they promised to do on my car, some of which involved correcting the mistakes of others. Most of all, unlike many other members of the GT40 community, they made a substantial personal investment in the future of these cars and the continuity of the legitimacy of these cars. Please grant them the respect they have earned.