Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Gee,this all makes me feel better. Happy New Year, everyone.
Is the right to bear arms outdated.
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
Taken from: GUN CONTROL: A REALISTIC ASSESSMENT
"Stanford Law Professor John Kaplan (until his death, the leading American authority on narcotics policy) used to remark on anti-gun crusaders' profound ignorance of guns as technological objects and of gun owners and of why and how guns are owned and used. An apt simile would be to narcotics regulations proposed by people so ignorant of the subject that they thought cocaine a common vegetable and marijuana a gas. This ignorance leads anti-gun crusaders to formulate proposals that, if effective, would double or even triple the death tolls from gun accidents and assaults.{37}
This comprehensive ignorance is part and parcel of the anti- gun crusaders' loathing and contempt for gun owners. Anti-gun crusaders often express their pride in knowing nothing about guns because it sets them apart from the barbaric gun lover. Nor do they care that this ignorance precludes their evaluating the viability and pragmatic value of potential control strategies. That is not a great problem for anti-gun crusaders because, ultimately, they are more interested in the symbolic significance of having guns banned than in establishing pragmatic and effective control over them."
"Stanford Law Professor John Kaplan (until his death, the leading American authority on narcotics policy) used to remark on anti-gun crusaders' profound ignorance of guns as technological objects and of gun owners and of why and how guns are owned and used. An apt simile would be to narcotics regulations proposed by people so ignorant of the subject that they thought cocaine a common vegetable and marijuana a gas. This ignorance leads anti-gun crusaders to formulate proposals that, if effective, would double or even triple the death tolls from gun accidents and assaults.{37}
This comprehensive ignorance is part and parcel of the anti- gun crusaders' loathing and contempt for gun owners. Anti-gun crusaders often express their pride in knowing nothing about guns because it sets them apart from the barbaric gun lover. Nor do they care that this ignorance precludes their evaluating the viability and pragmatic value of potential control strategies. That is not a great problem for anti-gun crusaders because, ultimately, they are more interested in the symbolic significance of having guns banned than in establishing pragmatic and effective control over them."
I'm just going to leave this here
BBC News | Africa | Firing on all cylinders
BBC News | Africa | Firing on all cylinders
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Part of a post by John M
I am done with this discussion, but I feel that John M, made a comment that needs to be addressed: He states that I'm against guns because of "comprehensive ignorance"!
Ignorance? Bullshit....................
My beloved Uncle Don, by dads brother was a San Mateo County Deputy Sheriff. I just loved him, he let me ride in his squad car and told great stories about his job. When I was 10, he was shot twice in the line of duty. We rushed to the hospital, all the family was there, crying and worring, it was horrable! He did survive and other than walking with a limp for the rest of his life, he went back to work. But I never stopped worring about him!
Then when I was 15, I signed up for sailing lessons at the Palo Alto Yacht Harbor and met George. George was in his early 30s and meeting him changed my life in almost every way.
George was a Renaissance Man, smart, successful, and endlessly interesting, he always rode his bike to work in the 1960s! He had a varnished, Thistle Sailboat that he taught us to sail. It was wood not because wood was better, it was wood because it was beautiful. Every winter we would spend hundreds of hours sanding and varnishing that beautiful boat.
George was very smart, he graduated with a PHD from Caltech and went into the Air Force. He said he could not talk about what he did in the Air Force, but he knew an awful lot about Codes and Recon Satellites.
George was also a car guy, he had a black 1957 Thunderbird and a black 1966 Pontiac GTO convertable, he told us all about cars, racing and the GT40.........I have a black one!
After the Air Force he went to work at Hewlitt and Packard in Palo Alto, thats when we met him.
Two of the guys who learned to sail and race with us were Bill and Rick Mann, they became my best friends for life and business partners for over 40 years!
Even better than that, in the summer of 1967 (the Summer of Love) I met their kid sister Frances, I fell in love at first sight and she is my lovely wife. Anyone could see how smart and what potential Frances had, and right out of college, George gave Fran her first proffesional job a HP. It worked out well, she and Bill Hewlett became friends. In 1998 when Bill was given an Honorary Degree at Oxford, he took Frances with him for the festivities.
Yes George was responsible for most of the good things in my life!
In 1980, while working, he got into an argument over a software program and this miserable little shit went out to his car, got his gun, shot and killed George. Over a fucking software progrm!!!!!!!
The little shit claimed the "twinky defence", he said his blood sugar was low, that thats why he shot George! Bad eating and a gun........thats all it took!!
John M, you say I'm against guns because of "comprehensive ignorance", well F**K YOU!
I know all about guns and their effects on people!
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I never said the excerpt was about you Jim. I'm sorry you took it so personally.
I should have clarified that it was the general view I get from the anti-gun movement.
I should have clarified that it was the general view I get from the anti-gun movement.
Here's an example of a 'poorly formulated' action from the "anti-gun crusaders".
N.Y. news site stirs outrage after publishing gun owners' names - latimes.com
Turns out, that a lot of these permit holders are women who are rape victim's or have been abused and got a gun for protection. But now that their names and addresses are published, their assaulters can easily find them.
N.Y. news site stirs outrage after publishing gun owners' names - latimes.com
Turns out, that a lot of these permit holders are women who are rape victim's or have been abused and got a gun for protection. But now that their names and addresses are published, their assaulters can easily find them.
Why is everyone talking like this is an all or nothing battle? Guns are already very regulated. These regulations have changed in the past and will continue to change as needed in the future. It seems like any gun enthusiasts I talk to are beyond paranoid about liberals taking away their weapons. And I am not referring to just the gun guys on this forum, but also to actual people I have spoken with. I could never imagine a scenario where the U.S. could successfully disarm all private citizens.
Since mass shootings are now gaining popularity, we may have to make some adjustments in order to prevent them. Its in no way a new concept, but the frequency does seem to be increasing at an alarming rate. Gun control may not stop the next one, but the majority of the country is ready to revisit some of the regulations we already have in place. Maybe gun owners will have to assume more responsibility for their weapons and make sure they can not be easily accessed by unauthorized users. Maybe having the ability to fire a certain number of rounds in a certain amount of time will be regulated. Maybe gun show sales and private sales need to be restricted. Maybe more training and education is needed to make sure people understand the consequences of owning some of these weapons. Is any of this unreasonable? Yes, I know it is and I know that many of you will not budge. Thats a good thing. Without your opposition, gun ownership could be in danger and I do not believe that is right course either.
I have several friends who feel it is important to have weapons for protection. I know a few civilians who carry a handgun on themselves at all times. I have personally always thought it was a little ridiculous. I do not like to even wear a watch, let alone a firearm. I always thought the chances of them being able to use their weapon to improve any situation in any way were far outweighed by the possibility of being involved in something far more tragic.
Since mass shootings are now gaining popularity, we may have to make some adjustments in order to prevent them. Its in no way a new concept, but the frequency does seem to be increasing at an alarming rate. Gun control may not stop the next one, but the majority of the country is ready to revisit some of the regulations we already have in place. Maybe gun owners will have to assume more responsibility for their weapons and make sure they can not be easily accessed by unauthorized users. Maybe having the ability to fire a certain number of rounds in a certain amount of time will be regulated. Maybe gun show sales and private sales need to be restricted. Maybe more training and education is needed to make sure people understand the consequences of owning some of these weapons. Is any of this unreasonable? Yes, I know it is and I know that many of you will not budge. Thats a good thing. Without your opposition, gun ownership could be in danger and I do not believe that is right course either.
I have several friends who feel it is important to have weapons for protection. I know a few civilians who carry a handgun on themselves at all times. I have personally always thought it was a little ridiculous. I do not like to even wear a watch, let alone a firearm. I always thought the chances of them being able to use their weapon to improve any situation in any way were far outweighed by the possibility of being involved in something far more tragic.
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Pat
Supporter
Sounds like all dangerous weapons should be registered.
Woman arrested after trying to kill her boyfriend with her large breasts
Woman arrested after trying to kill her boyfriend with her large breasts
About 80 times a day, every day of the year, some thoughtless jerk gets drunk and knowingly drives drunk. He drives a 3500 pound machine into an unknowing victim or victims. There is concsious forethought. The loss for the families is the same. The finality is the same. The years of grief is the same. And it is violent!
"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mohandas Gandhi, an Autobiography, page 446.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Good lord, where do you get this shit?
He's talking about collective arms in defense of India....not arming every lout individually...
"I used to issue leaflets asking people to enlist as recruits. One of the arguments I had used was distasteful to the Commissioner : 'Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle class render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.' The Commissioner referred to this and said that he appreciated my presence in the conference in spite of the differences between us. "
And this was before his philopsophy had been formed....as the title "MY EXPERIMENTS WITH TRUTH" indicate...
"The only virtue I want to claim is truth and non-violence. I lay no claim to superhuman powers. I want none. I wear the same corruptible flesh that the weakest of my fellow beings wears, and am therefore as liable to err as any. My services have many limitations, but God has upto now blessed them in spite of the imperfections. "
http://www.mahatma.org.in/quotes/quotes.jsp?link=qt
No less a loss for the families, 6.1 per 100k of US gun deaths are suicides. 3.7 per 100k are homicide.
List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You'll see that the US suicide rate is quite a bit lower than Japan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
And the overall murder rate per 100k is higher in Asian countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
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Tom, you are right. All of that is terrible as well.
There is one difference though. No one is against at least trying to limit the amount of drunk driving accidents. There are not any drunk driving enthusiasts who lobby for the protection of intoxicated motoring.
And no I do not think gun owners are the equivalent of drunks.
There is a huge liquor and tobacco lobby, even more effective than the gun lobby.
Good point.