Joel’s SL-C Build Thread

Joel K

Supporter
Looks great. Do you know what system you'll be using for the power brakes?
Thanks Allan, working on that now. I am trying to make the stock 2010 Camaro SS brake booster and master cylinder work. It’s a pretty compact unit and figured matching the brake booster with the calipers made sense.

The three major problems I think need to be solved are the following(There May be more, but these are the three I know of):

1)Drive a brake booster from a floor mount pedal
2)Adjust the pedal ratio from manual to power, go from 5.x:1 to 3.x:1
3)Position the brake booster and master cylinder to clear the fans

I have number 1 and 2 figured out by using a slave pedal between the pedal and the booster. I’m not done making the parts but have it mocked up and it works very nice.

With regard to number 3, by mounting the brake booster 6.25” from the floor pan on the extended foot box I get 3.5” of clearance from the master cylinder to the face of the radiator. Maybe a bit more if I can mount the radiator a bit more forward. I don’t know if that is possible but would like your opinion.

The stock fans fit no problem but would like to upgrade the fans and would need 4” of clearance for the HD Maradyne or Mishimoto fans. If I can find 12” brushless Spal, they would fit as is since they are under 3.5” deep. Having said this, there would still be no room for a shroud.

I may reduce the length of the extended foot box by 1.25” and or try to see if anyone makes remote master cylinder reservoir which would provide enough room for at least the heavy duty fans.
 
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Joel K

Supporter
I'm planning power brakes also. I had this unit left over from my GTM build. Not enough room in the GTM. https://www.mpbrakes.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=2BFE78F8695F4586AC70FD356397FEAB

They also have a electric vacuum pump so you don't have to rely on manifold vacuum. https://www.mpbrakes.com/accessories/ac9001k-silent-drive-electric-vacuum-pump-kit.asp
Thanks Roger, the electric vacuum pump looks nice. Chevy recommends using electric vacuum assist since the LT4 does not pull enough vacuum in all circumstances. Since I am planning on using a factory ECU and not aftermarket I may be able to use the Stock GM electric air pump, but if not the mpbrakes looks like a very good choice,
 

Joel K

Supporter
Perhaps try this one as a remote brake booster.
All in 1 unit and can work with dual master cylinders

And use it with a vacuum pump

Ian
Thanks Ian, I was looking at that one and also a single up front and another single in the back for the rear brakes, but concerned if the NJ safety inspector would be ok with that solution. Wasn’t sure if they are DOT approved. My logic being stock Camaro calipers with a Stock Camaro brake booster and Master cylinder should pass inspection.
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Thanks Ian, I was looking at that one and also a single up front and another single in the back for the rear brakes, but concerned if the NJ safety inspector would be ok with that solution. Wasn’t sure if they are DOT approved. My logic being stock Camaro calipers with a Stock Camaro brake booster and Master cylinder should pass inspection.
Joel
What is the front / rear weight of your car compared to the Front / rear balance of the Camero? I bet the Comero is front heavy and you are rear heavy so the brakes should accommodate the correct weights.
Ian
 

Joel K

Supporter
Joel
What is the front / rear weight of your car compared to the Front / rear balance of the Camero? I bet the Comero is front heavy and you are rear heavy so the brakes should accommodate the correct weights.
Ian
Ian, you bring up a very good point.

I haven’t gotten that far with looking into it although it is on my to do list. Always interested in others opinions so this is what I found.

The weight bias of a Camaro is 52/48 which is far different than an SLC which is estimated to be 46/54. Camaro weighs 3850 pounds and the SLC just guessing will be 2800-3000. I’m also guessing my SLC will be even more rear weight biased due to engine and engine placement. I know it’s better to have too much Front brake bias than rear and that there are bias adjusters which can help adjust front-back bias.

The stock SLC uses a 3/4” Front and 7/8” rear MC, not sure what the stock Camaro has Front/rear, it’s says bore size is 1” but nothing about bias.
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Ok I would presume the Camero is a tandem master cylinder similarto this

And most SLC are set up as dual (can fit same or different diameter units) and then you can adjust a bit more with the balance bar between the two

You could use the standard SLC pedal (with dual cylinders) and either run each circuit through a booster, or run both circuits through that unit I posted earlier (The one I posted needs less real estate volume to fit)

Or you could run a system with a higher pivot ratio on the pedal and avoid using the brake boosters all together - much simpler and a neater install IMO

You can attain the same pedal feel and stoppping power either way.


Ian
 

Joel K

Supporter
Time for the next update, the last few weeks I spent time designing, fabricating and assembling a power brake solution for the SL-C.

The general approach is to use a 2010 Camaro SS brake booster and master cylinder and mate it to the Tilton pedal assembly and preferably the RCR adjustable pedal bracket.

Here is a video and overview of the adjustable pedal bracket and Tilton 600 series pedal assembly...

Here is the follow on video to the design, fabrication, and assembly of the power brake solution...

Considering I planned to mount the brake booster on the end of the extended footbox, the first thing I did was mock up the extended footbox in plywood to visualize and mount the various components...
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I selected the Camaro brake booster since the combination of the brake booster and master cylinder depth is only 9” and also matches the Camaro SS calipers that come with the SLC.

The three major problems I think need to be solved are the following(There May be more, but these are the three I know of):

1)Drive a brake booster from a floor mount pedal
2)Adjust the pedal ratio from manual to power, go from 5.x:1 to 3.x:1
3)Position the brake booster and master cylinder to clear the fans

To solve items 1&2 I found a brake booster bracket used in 1965-1974 Mopar cars. The reason I decided to go in this direction is that back in 1965, Mopar used the same brake pedal with a single hole for both manual and power brakes. They then mated a brake booster assembly which used a slave brake lever/pedal which adjusted the brake pedal ratio for power brakes. Very similar to what we need to do in order to leverage the Tilton 600 series pedal assembly.

Here is a pic of the Mopar brake booster assembly...
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Here is some math behind how the Tilton and Mopar bracket combo would effect the overall brake pedal ratio....
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This may be a good starting point and prove to be to low a pedal ratio. If so, it can easily be modified by moving the holes on the slave brake lever/pedal to raise the ratio to suite my preference.

Here are some parts I fabricated...
Nylon bushings to mount a shoulder bolt through the Tilton brake pedal where the balance bar goes, also made a bushing for the Camaro Brake booster rod so I could use the 3/8” clevis pin to mount the brake booster actuater rod to the slave pedal/lever.

Nylon is easy to machine, is hard and slippery and makes for great bushings...
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Slides right into the brake pedal....
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Fabricated a mounting box to mount the slave brake pedal/lever...
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It mounts right behind the adjustable pedal bracket and I notched it for a slight overlap....
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Lastly, fabricate a brake pedal actuator rod which can be used in conjunction with the adjustable pedal bracket. This enables moving the pedals backward or forward and it all works nicely with th power brake assembly.

Drilled the holes first....
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Then put it on the mill to shape...
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Joel K

Supporter
Here is a pic of the whole assembly where the pedals are setup at the midpoint which is were I think it will be for my preference....
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Now located closest to the driver....
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Lastly I included the side of the driver compartment to the plywood footbox so I could connect the radiator compartment side panels and see if I have enough room behind the fans....
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Based on this photo I should just have enough room for the upgraded Maradyne or Mishimoto fans. I may need to move the reservoir and make it a remote mount if I need more room. Also, I do not plan to run a shroud. So by mounting the brake booster as high as possible on the extended foot-box I have enough room for the radiator and upgraded fans.
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All in all I am quite pleased how this came out. I won’t mount this in the car until I have the suspension, body, and center console in. Then I’ll fine tune the steering column location, mount the seats and then the brake booster and pedal assembly. Right now I am thinking this approach will work and at this point I am fairly confident I’ll have both power steering and brakes in my SL-C. Lot’s of fun designing these custom items.
 
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Dan Carter

Supporter
Joel. Two questions

1. I see to adjust the pedal, you need to get to that back bolt. Have you tried to physically get into the footwell with pedal and steering column installed? I don’t fit
2. What impact is that direct heat source on the booster going to have?

Is that the wife’s furniture? Brave man.
 

Joel K

Supporter
Joel. Two questions

1. I see to adjust the pedal, you need to get to that back bolt. Have you tried to physically get into the footwell with pedal and steering column installed? I don’t fit
2. What impact is that direct heat source on the booster going to have?

Is that the wife’s furniture? Brave man.
1)Have’t tried that yet, may need an access hole somewhere or have to remove the seat and dive under the dash. To initially install it there are the access holes above the foot-box but I don’t think they are usable after the A/C plenum is attached. Also, I may forgo the adjustable pedal bracket. All I would need is a different actuator rod I can fab up. Since I already purchased the adjustable pedal bracket it would be nice to use it.

2)Really not sure. I have the factory fiberglass heat shield and that would shield off the booster and leave the MC exposed. I could also shield the MC which may help a little. My theory is that in a normal car, the MC and booster are placed not too far from the exhaust manifolds and it gets very toasty in that area and it does not seem to be a problem. I know my Vipers got very warm under hood so I’m thinking this is not much of an issue. Any advice is certainly welcome.

3)Brake Pedal assembly on the kitchen granite, well after 29 years of marriage my wife knows my habits and is actually very supportive of all my crazy hobbies. The kit car probably being the craziest to date. You’ll notice I have large towels under the stuff that is sitting on the counter tops. Actually she would rather have me in the house working on parts than being in the garage. So she watches TV and I work on the parts and we are together and she is happy. LOL, it all works out.
 

Ron McCall

Supporter
Nice work !
Are you certain that your actuator rod is up to the task?( Especially with the pedals in the rearward most position)
I think I would feel much better seeing it made from steel instead of aluminum.

Ron
 

Joel K

Supporter
Nice work !
Are you certain that your actuator rod is up to the task?( Especially with the pedals in the rearward most position)
I think I would feel much better seeing it made from steel instead of aluminum.

Ron
Thanks Ron, agreed. The aluminum is more for mocking up since my equipment marginally can machine steel. Yes, was planning on making the final version in steel and should have mentioned that.
 

Joel K

Supporter
I thought this was worth sharing and show the value of using a body buck. If you have the room I highly recommend using one to store the body.

The first thing I did was build a body buck for the SL-C body. While the driver side of the front and rear clam alignment was perfect, the passenger side was not. I am happy to report 9 months later having the body resting on the buck, the fiberglass panels have relaxed and I now have perfect alignment of all the panels on the car. I am happy to say that this body will need very little work when the time comes for body fitment.

Hopefully my windshield drops in well and there are minimal air pockets to deal with, but from a panel alignment standpoint, the doors, front and rear clams and body gaps are as good as could be.

Passenger front clam gap 9 months ago...
AA6F36BB-F01A-466E-9A33-6D57E65B9900.jpeg


Passenger rear clam to roof gap...
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9 months later on the buck, looking very good and with some door seal molding it should align very well....
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Rear clam now aligns very well, there is a slight difference in the gap left to right which should even out by shifting the body a bit, but the height difference from the roof to the rear clam is now very good on both sides....
733DA8F9-DFF5-4408-96D4-AED433325E0B.jpeg
 
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That's some great before/after shots of the body relaxing!

Great stuff on the power steering and brake setup. I'm really looking forward to how it plays out. Both would make the SLC an easier car to daily drive. Power steering would be handy for all these tight 90s we do on the streets, not as critical for sweeping turns or short stints at a track day. I had originally leaned towards really wanting power assist brakes when I first started driving - but with miles and continued bedding of the pads the desire for power brakes has subsided quite a bit. I think you'd have a more relaxed time driving with power assist, however.
 

Joel K

Supporter
That's some great before/after shots of the body relaxing!

Great stuff on the power steering and brake setup. I'm really looking forward to how it plays out. Both would make the SLC an easier car to daily drive. Power steering would be handy for all these tight 90s we do on the streets, not as critical for sweeping turns or short stints at a track day. I had originally leaned towards really wanting power assist brakes when I first started driving - but with miles and continued bedding of the pads the desire for power brakes has subsided quite a bit. I think you'd have a more relaxed time driving with power assist, however.
Thanks Cam, I was thinking power steering was higher on the priority list than power brakes. But would prefer both. If I do Install the power brake setup I could easily return to manual brakes or visa versa since I only need the small cutout for the brake booster on the front of the foot-box. Could always attach a solid plate to close it out if I decide to reverse it. Right now I am probably going to install it and see how it goes.
 

Joel K

Supporter
A quick update, received the custom rear engine mounting brackets back from the fabricator. In post #167 I covered the need to shift the engine back 1.25”(originally 1.5”)and raise it .33” as well. I designed and mocked up the rear engine mounts in plywood and gave the fabricator the templates and mocked up brackets to serve as a guide.

I think they came out really well and do the job.

Here is a video discussing the finished custom rear engine mount brackets...

First step I coated the bracket with blue die and installed them with clamps on the aluminum stanchions....
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Used a scribe to mark the circles for the 5/8” holes and placed back on the chassis and trans adapter plate....
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Then scribed the top two side holes...
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Drilled them out with a 10mm bit...
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They align and fit great.....
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A view from the top, shifts the engine back 1.25”
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Added the third side hole on each bracket and now installed on the LT4....
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Next step is to get the front engine mount caps welded up then will send the front and rear mounts to get nickel plated. Will also pull the engine and start working on the custom low mount alternator bracket.
 
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