Lola T70 Reproduction Build... Recommendations for non ZF transaxle?

I am new to this forum and hope some of you can help me... I have a Lola T70 Spyder rolling chassis and am now in the budget planning stage for the engine and transaxle... I will likely be using a small block Ford 60's production 350 HP NOT high strung as I plan to run this on the street. I do not want to spend $10,000.00+ on a ZF transaxle and I have been looking for information on the next best & cost effective alternative... I have seen Porsche 930 / G-50 trans being used, but do not see much info on exact model and adapter I should be using...

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated...

T70 is not a mono, it is a tube frame with mostly GT40 suspention parts... Body was molded off original to be used as spares for a race car.

Thanks...

Michael
[email protected]
 
Michael, welcome to the forum!
My personal favorite choice would be a Porsche 930 with LSD. A 4-speed, of course.
Plenty strong and still affordable. Good match to your planned engine. Adapters from Kennedy Engineered Products are readily available. Look them up.
 
Michael,
The 930 is not a G-50 as that is a 5 spd.
If you are not going for an original looking tranaxle the Ricardo is a six speed and should bolt up to a small block ford. These are on Ebay for $7500.
Good luck with your build and part selection.
Regards
Mark
 

Julian

Lifetime Supporter
IMO comparisons are being made between used alternatives and a reconditioned/new ZF at $10K and in reality a well reconditioned Porsche transaxle is also going to be in the $10K region, especially once you have purchased the adapters etc. My G50/52 was $15K, admittedly beefed up for use behind 600HP.

Beware a Ricardo that requires an $800 starter and is huge dimensionally in comparison to a ZF.

A good used ZF can be had for $6500, I am in process of selling one right now to a fellow in the UK.
 

Ron Earp

Admin
I have a Porsche 930 transaxle in my RCR Lola T70 replica:

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/lola-t70-lounge/18681-build-diary-rcr-lola-t70-spider.html

And I'm pretty happy with it. I don't know how your prices are but mine was a good bit short of $10k.

I got the box, with LSD, for $3800. I then sent it off to be checked out and rebuilt for about $2,200. The adapter, flywheel, clutch, external slave is going to run probably $1500 to $2000, but those costs are going to be in the same ballpark for the ZF too.

I think the 930 with the 4.22 standard gear set makes for some interesting ratios. Mine has the 5.12 ring and gear, but I do have a 4.22 I'm considering putting in the car. Shifting on the 930s is slow and I don't think there is much that can be done about that. You get used to it.
 
OK... Holy LolaCow!! I am obviously in the right spot for Lola information... THANK YOU!!! But do NOT stop... if anyone else has ideas, I am all ears... I can not say how much I appreciate this help... I come from a gear head family, but unfortunatly out of nearly 300 cars we owned only the GT40 and the 1989 930 Cabri Slant Nose had transaxles... so this is deffinatly new terretory for me.

Thanks again...

Michael

Ps. If any of you are gun guys as well... I own MFI which is well known in the firearms industry (specializing in modern assault weapons accessories). We are a BATF 07 +SOT... so if any of you need advice on weapons systems just ask... Happy to help... Additionally if you see something you like that we make... Just ask for the Lola Discount... Insider just for this forum so do not tell anyone else...
 
Michael, I've been aware of some great products from MFI. Looks like your military contracts are keeping you pretty busy too! Ask any questions regarding your build and I have confidence that the super guy's on this forum will assist!
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Michael

At 350hp you are right in the power level where a Renault UN1 will cope fairly well

There are numerous adaptor plates and "ford type" bellhousings that allow you to use standard Ford parts (flywheel, clutch etc)

And I'd imagine for a non LSD UN1 you could have for very little money
From there everything starts adding money
See Tornado for some parts info and prices
Full parts list for the TS 40

Or for something different sequential from Elite
TXL250 « Elite Racing Transmissions

There are also various Audi / VW transmissions that are successfully used on these cars.
Ian
 

Ron Earp

Admin
If you're in California you might want to stick to a Porsche box if you are going non-ZF. There are numerous sources for Porsche boxes in the states and lots of people that work on them.

California Motorsports is well-known for transaxles and offers much more than just Porsche boxes. However, the Mendeola boxes are not cheap by a long shot.
 
Hi Michael
The porsche option leaves more room to increase your engine output from your current planned level.
Depending on your engine configuration and driving needs , you should decide inbetween
a 4 speed or 5 speed first.
If you drive a lot in town, a short first gear is helpful, if you want to have a cruise gear ( overdrive) also, than the 5 speed would be the way to go. The same is true if you have an engine with a narrow powerband.
But if you have a torquey engine and or run it mostly on tracks, the 930 ( which is the 4 speed box from 911 Turbos from 76 to 88) will be the way to go.
The 930 is a fairly light but strong box(9" ring and pinion) and looks beautifull to. It will take a lot of power and torque to break it. you will be fine with that choice.
Up to 400 HP G50 / 01 /02/03/04/05 will do fine as well. You will probably find more of the /02 and /05 version in US ( because that are the boxes originaly suppliedin US modells). The /05 has also a little higher final drive ratio of 3.33 instead of 3.44 for the other versions. This makes it a bit better gearing for V8´s.
The 01´s and 02´s are the boxes used in the 911sc 86 to 88/89. the 03 to 05´s where used in the 964 2WD cars as of 90.
The most sought after G50´s are the turbo boxes , they have a 9" ring and pinion ( compared to a 7,5" of the boxes mentioned above). This would be a G50/50 ( only made in 89) or th G50/52 made as of 90. This boxes will be good for a lot of power and torque Depending on your space ( lenght) available you could also use the 6 speed boxes of the 993 type, but they are quite a bit longer.
If you check out the site of california motorsports the have all of them pictured and described.

Thanks TOM
 

Ron Earp

Admin
There are some things to be aware of with the 930 boxes.

The box can be used in the flipped configuration and this will put the engine very low in the chassis. But, unless the engine is dry sumped, or you've got an extremely shallow oil pan, then you'll probably have half shaft angles that you might find unacceptable. I'm sort of in this boat and am evaluating various solutions.

You can have the ring gear flipped, run it in the standard configuration, and it'll help with the half shaft angles. This is non-trival though and does cost some dough. I'm also considering doing this as well.

Search around and you'll find a lot of threads on the 930.

R
 
Ron, What kind of angles are you worried about? In my setup(LS6 w/batwing pan) and 930, with the oil pan even with chassis bottom edge, I have around 5 deg from horiz but due to my wheelbase, 12deg to the front. This is with a 25.5 in tire at 3.75in ride height. I use NEO CV grease and "prepped" 930 joints( CV ball grooves honed out to "loosen up" the joint) and have never had a joint issue with overheating or extensive power loss. If you look under a stock 930 turbo, you will see that Porsche ran similar,if not greater angles without issue. I feel for what we are doing with these cars that this arrangement is fine.
The 930 box is fine for track/street use as is with the 4.22 final drive, but after a while you will find 1st gear a little short and 4th a little too long. I mean seriously, who could really use the theoretical top speed of somewhere near 200mph on some of the tracks we go to anyway??!!
Dave
 

Ron Earp

Admin
Ron, What kind of angles are you worried about? In my setup(LS6 w/batwing pan) and 930, with the oil pan even with chassis bottom edge, I have around 5 deg from horiz but due to my wheelbase, 12deg to the front. This is with a 25.5 in tire at 3.75in ride height. I use NEO CV grease and "prepped" 930 joints( CV ball grooves honed out to "loosen up" the joint) and have never had a joint issue with overheating or extensive power loss. If you look under a stock 930 turbo, you will see that Porsche ran similar,if not greater angles without issue. I feel for what we are doing with these cars that this arrangement is fine.
The 930 box is fine for track/street use as is with the 4.22 final drive, but after a while you will find 1st gear a little short and 4th a little too long. I mean seriously, who could really use the theoretical top speed of somewhere near 200mph on some of the tracks we go to anyway??!!
Dave

Hey Dave,

We've discussed this before and I have essentially the same situation as you - prepped cages from The Driveshaft Shop, Neo grease, special boots and about a 12-13 degree angle.

Our concern is that the intended use for our car is the 13 hour endurance race and it "just isn't right". Ideally they'd be running a 1-2 degree angle.

But the fix isn't all that easy if you have a look at the thread I linked to below. Sort of "damned if you do and damned if you don't" with respect to inversion vs flipping the ring gear.

I might look around for a shallower, but wider, oil pan. If I had that I could lower the engine an inch or so and that will make a fairly significant difference.
 
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