Police brutality and murders.

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Good grief, settle down....Beavis...lol....I'm far more tolerant than the groupthink crowd here. And I think very few people are overtly racist.

I asked you a question. You flipped out and went off the deep end as a result. It's not an easy question. It asks you to examine a pretty basic bias that a lot of folks show around here without thinking about it (and without being overtly racist): the assumption that blacks are involved in a lot of crime without asking WHY. All I did was ask, why?

And you flipped out.
 

Keith

Moderator
You're not having a discussion here Jeff, you are 'leading the witness' trying to put words in his mouth and direct him to a conclusion of your own making.

I am finding the debate interesting but not the mechanics. Free it up a little...

Please....
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
No I am not. I'm asking a basic question to determine his view of what is transpiring so we can focus on the fix. He -- and you -- just don't like the question. That's not my problem.

Is it an uncomfortable question? Yes.

Does it need to be asked? Yes.

And one of you guys needs to tell Mike that he needs to take a break for a few days. I was nothing but polite and he is off the deep end.

Like I said, the reaction here to a basic question is quite telling.
 

Keith

Moderator
What you seem to be doing is trying to get people to say, is that African Americans have a propensity for violence and crime. They clearly do not want to say or necessarily believe that and yet you are insistent that they say it, presumably so you can play the "race" card. That is my take on it anyway. You have made clear many times that "white old guys" are inherently racist. That is your world view, but it's not correct.

You surely will not win friends to your position with such hostile tactics though, will you?

If I've got it in anyway wrong then I withdraw my comments...
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
You most certainly are incorrect, you apparently are incapable of reading my posts, and you are being a jackass.

I've said above I don't think most people are inherently racist. You ignored that.

I've said above it's a hard question -- what has caused the higher crime rates amongst black folks in the US? I proposed that in general it was one of two causes and asked which of those two people here thought was the more likely cause. YOu can call that me "trying to get people to say something they don't believe" but I think that says far more about YOU than anything else.

I'm not here to win friends. I'm here to make sure that other car enthusiasts who come here aren't immediately confronted with the solely the political viewpoint of the 65 year old white conservative male, and leave because of it.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Allen TX, 4th July weekend - zero shot.
//
Chicago South-side 84 shot 14 dead (two children).
No police involved..............

Chicago South-side this year -- 2100 shot....
No police involved............

Did I mention that Chicago South-side is 93% black, is that your answer?

I'm trying to understand your point. CAn you explain what you are intending to prove with these numbers?
 

Keith

Moderator
You most certainly are incorrect, you apparently are incapable of reading my posts, and you are being a jackass.

I've said above I don't think most people are inherently racist. You ignored that.

I've said above it's a hard question -- what has caused the higher crime rates amongst black folks in the US? I proposed that in general it was one of two causes and asked which of those two people here thought was the more likely cause. YOu can call that me "trying to get people to say something they don't believe" but I think that says far more about YOU than anything else.

I'm not here to win friends. I'm here to make sure that other car enthusiasts who come here aren't immediately confronted with the solely the political viewpoint of the 65 year old white conservative male, and leave because of it.

Who appointed you as guardian of the political soul of GT40's.com Jeff? If you are not trying to discuss things with other board members a view to perhaps offering them an alternative viewpoint, what on earth are you doing here? Perhaps your dubious talents would be better suited to a board with less jackassases & Beavis's on it mate...

I do enjoy some of what you have top say but I for one am completely turned off by the hectoring style you adopt. Message wasted.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
You are mistaken, blacks have a problem with whites and the cops.

If you don't like the Police, then don't commit crimes and the popo goes away.

Now I have a question: "Why in the world is always looting attached to massive protests?

If the whites had a problem with blacks, we would not have a black President - so simple as that!

What is teh answer to the question? Black folks stealing is always something that happens as a part of protests by African Americans?

That last sentence made me laugh out loud. The President has spent the last 8 years being caricatured as a monkey, having his birth in Hawaii questioned, and on and on and on and on......so I'd suggest, strongly, it is not as simple as that.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Who appointed you as guardian of the political soul of GT40's.com Jeff? If you are not trying to discuss things with other board members a view to perhaps offering them an alternative viewpoint, what on earth are you doing here? Perhaps your dubious talents would be better suited to a board with less jackassases & Beavis's on it mate...

I do enjoy some of what you have top say but I for one am completely turned off by the hectoring style you adopt. Message wasted.

I don't care Keith. I'm not here to make you happy.

No one appointed me anything. It's a message board. Within the rules, people can come here and post as they please. And I'm most certainly offering folks an alternative viewpoint. The problem here is that causes a certain subset of the membership --generally not you, to your credit -- a lot of heartburn. Think on that as to why it is.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
An interesting quote from teh article Bob posted:

It becomes obvious that not being white has nothing to do with it. The "bad habits" within each race - crimes occurring more frequently then their share of the population - become glaringly apparent. Alcohol is an issue with Native Americans and Whites. Prostitution is an issue among Hawaiian/Pacific Islanders, compared to their population numbers. We could do this with many more crimes, but there simply isn't room here.

Who here agrees inherent characteristics, I mean "bad habits" of black folks include a propensity to commit crime?
 

Keith

Moderator
I don't care Keith. I'm not here to make you happy.

No one appointed me anything. It's a message board. Within the rules, people can come here and post as they please. And I'm most certainly offering folks an alternative viewpoint. The problem here is that causes a certain subset of the membership --generally not you, to your credit -- a lot of heartburn. Think on that as to why it is.

I have thought why it is. I spent 7 happy years living in Northern Alabama and probably have more a feel for it than the actual Brit. During my time in Huntsville, I worked with many black people who were, in the main, high achievers. However, there was another tranche of black people, living over the other side of the railway tracks (literally) that were hidden away from the mainstream. There was generally no interaction between the two "communities". In a coffee shop in the Old Town Square (where Tallulah Bankhead was born) I learned that as recently as the early 1960's, a 'random' black' was hanged in that very same square, just for being black, an event which apparently occurred every Friday evening. There are many Americans I met who didn't know this. Several miles down the road in a town called Arab, a sign was to be seen that read "Don't let the Sun Set on your Black Ass".

At the time I marvelled at the progress that had been made in just 25 years, but then I realised it would probably take 125 years before any kind of 'normal' relationship could be expected and that what I was actually seeing was a lot of window dressing.

"Racism" per ce, is present in every society and at every level. The British were slaves before they became freemen, going back 2 thousand years almost into the Middle Ages. What I do know, is that social engineering and political meddling can sometimes cause more harm than good, and that the majority of people on this earth are just like ourselves and wish only good for each other. Then there's the other lot, the noisy one's with guns and big mouths.

What I am trying laboriously to say, is that we will get there eventually but I do not believe it can be forced, but should be encouraged in a less confrontational way.

On that particular subject, I must say in closing, that I am absolutely appalled at the Police 'Robocop riot gear' as depicted recently in the media. That can't help tensions can it?

I keep this photo on my desktop and have done so for many years, just to remind me of man's inhumanity to man..

 

Steve

Supporter
Keith, I agree with your posts. Your last was particularly poignant.

Jeff, you are baiting and nothing more. You've yet to acknowledge that I absolutely agree with the two paragraphs that you outlined initially. Why is that hard for you to do? I'm afraid it's because it doesn't fit your narrative, that conservative white guys are all racist. Furthermore, the reasons for violence in the black community are not limited to your item #2, which implies only external forces are the reasons. It's far more complex than that in 2016.

My assertion is that, while external forces were the primary cause in the 60's, we have evolved a bit since then. At some point, the black community will need to pull themselves out of this mess (without someone's foot on their neck). The solutions will not come from outside. These have failed to date and people generally don't like "solutions" imposed upon them, however well intentioned. Their leaders since MLK have failed them in a big way and, in fact, add significantly to the problem.

How about this. I'll invite you to the twin cities and pay for your flight if you will spend 4 hours walking around North Minneapolis. I'll even give you a Twins shirt to wear so you can at least look like you love the twin cities. I would lay heavy odds you will be mugged and assaulted within 45 minutes to an hour, even as you plead with your assailant that you're liberal and support their causes and love Black Lives Matter. I give you 50:50 odds you don't last 4 hours and are killed without any provocation. Deal?
 
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Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
LOL....wait...you are an ER doc and you lose your cool over this question:

High black crime rates are caused by:

(a) the inherent violence of black folks; or

(b) external societal and economic forces?

Really?

Asking that question is calling you racist? Really?

Dude, you've got some deep seated issues on race you need to work out if that is the case.

Where do I have some obligation to acknowledge anything given the tone and tenor of your posting? Sure you agree with me some. Great. Some common ground. And then you immediately jump to your solution - the stereotypical right wing one -- that it's not just external forces without ever saying what that "other" is, that blacks themselves have to solve these problems since it isn't 1965 anymore and you're not a racist, and that black leaders bear burden for this as if they are encouraging black violence. Cliche, cliche, and cliche.

And all that claimed understanding on your part, thrown right out the window.
 

Steve

Supporter
And sure, deal.

Not an ER doc. Orthopaedic Surgeon.

And I'm not losing my cool, but I do find it offensive that you assume anyone on this board is such a pig that they believe blacks are inherently somehow genetically predisposed to violence. Any sensible person would take offense at that.

The rest of your post is drivel. I didn't say or imply most of that but you want me to because it would, once again, fit your bigoted view of a white conservative. I simply stated that the solutions will need to come from within the black community in order to be successful. And their current leaders are, by and large, failing them.

You still haven't proposed any solutions

PM me the weekend you want. I'm open after Labor Day. The area we're talking about is quite a war zone. I don't think "understanding" will get you far there
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
It just blows my mind that asking that question means I assume anyone on this board is racist. Blows my mind.

At the same time, did you see some of the above? That's clearly what some of that posting suggests.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
How about this. I'll invite you to the twin cities and pay for your flight if you will spend 4 hours walking around North Minneapolis. I'll even give you a Twins shirt to wear so you can at least look like you love the twin cities. I would lay heavy odds you will be mugged and assaulted within 45 minutes to an hour, even as you plead with your assailant that you're liberal and support their causes and love Black Lives Matter. I give you 50:50 odds you don't last 4 hours and are killed without any provocation. Deal?

And sure, deal.

Me thinks you should have specified that he walk around that area without armed security, or security of any kind, Doc. Not having done so leaves open one huge 'loophole' that could put the odds of winning your bet in jeopardy! You know how lawyers love to capitalize on loopholes... :smug2:
 

Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
Why Jeff.. Would Steve's answer change your proposed solution to the apparent issues?

Of course it would. If you think black folks are inherently violent, that suggests one solution. If you think the cause of the violence is historical/societal, that suggests another.

And believe me, I'm well aware why you guys don't want to answer that question.

What I am gathering from your responses here Jeff, is that YOU cannot define the problem, therefore YOU cannot create the solution.
Ergo
You wait for others to define the problem for you, then deftly shoot holes in any sort of response...

I challenge YOU to define the problem and create the solution.. :idea:


Good grief, settle down....Beavis...lol....

And in this latest episode, it was Jeff Young who was the first to stoop to name calling rather than sticking to the issues...
:thumbsdown:
 

Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
Me thinks you should have specified that he walk around that area without armed security, or security of any kind, Doc. Not having done so leaves open one huge 'loophole' that could put the odds of winning your bet in jeopardy! You know how lawyers love to capitalize on loopholes... :smug2:

Believe me, having spent most of my life in Minneapolis (also called Murderapolis), Steve is spot-on with his assertion of danger on the near north side of Minneapolis. Even with CC, I would not feel safe there. One gun on the side of a law abiding citizen would not stop you from being shot, mugged and robbed.. They may not kill you, but you sure would never plan another trip to that area of town. The area in St. Paul MN called Falcon Heights (small town that St. Paul expanded and grew around) is very close to the arm pit of St. Paul and a very similar crime profile to that of Near North Minneapolis.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Wrong. Go back my dear friend and read some of the crap thrown my way before that post. Which is just a term is youngsters use to tell someone to settle down. Not name calling.

Lame post Randy. Nice job.
 
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